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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (20597)	4/17/1998 3:40:00 AM
From: Krowbar	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Hi Christine, I thought that I would just throw in that my son attended a pagan campout last weekend in Austin, where about 500 people attended. He said that no photos were allowed because they might be used as blackmail against some of the attendees. Can you imagine somebody running for office, and their opponent found out about them attending a pagan festival. Horrors! Nothing much happened except barbecuing and chatting. Some of them romped in the nude!!! Del

To: Grainne who wrote (20597)	4/17/1998 9:21:00 AM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

CGB, What perceptions about paganism do I have that are incorrect? As far as I know-the ONLY comment I made about paganism was that it is, according to my AHD, "an absence of religion". I intentionally chose the least negative and broadest one. (For instance I passed on "hedonism") I don't believe that I have commented on paganism at all as far as content. When I said that paganism can turn into satanism, I was referring the efforts of people like Jane who twist the meanings. In exactly the same way, Christianity is NOT intended to be a religion of bigotry, but of love and acceptance, and yet people twist it into many odd shapes. (You didn't bother to correct that as a misconception in my post though I do think you have made clear your admiration for the basic Christian tenets) My point, my only point, is that paganism, Christianity and any system of belief can be, and probably has been, twisted and perverted by man. It is not Christianity that fills people with hatred. Nor is it atheism. By its nature--an assembly based on similar beliefs-- it is much easier to identify and blame religion in a general sense than atheism or agnosticism. Hitler had no more to do with true Christianity than atheism with the USSR. They were tools of control employed to attain certain political ends. As for the concept of churches being responsible for teaching morals rather than parents, no where did I advocate that. What I said was that for many parents, this could either aid and reinforce them in presenting a cohesive system consistent with their beliefs, or provide one for parents who really haven't given much thought to their own..a frequent and reprehensible situation, but all too common. It is very frustrating to me to read your and Del's posts. You both made me feel as if I had in some way attacked you and you both used that as a springboard for again speaking against Christianity. You also seem to want to read into my statements an indictment against you in some way. You would have to work really hard to find that. In my posting I have been careful to never declare myself either way for a couple of reasons: one being my often fluid belief structure which is open to reflection and change and the other because I absolutely do NOT want to be labeled by either "camp" here at SI. I feel that I am responsible for my actions and statements and nothing else should be brought to task. I also believe that Del and you would be the people you are regardless of whether you are atheists or Christians. If you and Del run off together, deserting your families, abdicating your responsibilities, would it be accurate for me to say "Well of course, what do you expect? She dances in the moonlight and hugs trees! And he once went to a cocktail party at Madelyn O"Hare's house. THey did this bad thing because they're atheists." Of course not--we do these things because of weaknesses in our own natures. That's ALLLLLL I'm trying to say. The rest-for me-is persiflage. And to continue to dwell on who did what to whom and how nasty Christians are to atheists is self-defeating and only perpetrates the argument. To me you are Christine and I am penni. I like who you are and many of the stands you take but it has nothing to do with whether you're a Christian, a pagan or a satanist, but what kind of human being you are. Now can we talk about recipes or something? I made this incredibly easy, very chocolatey cherry cake that the boys went wild over. Not healthy at all..at least it's not meat.