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Non-Tech : Datek Brokerage $9.95 a trade -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: gbh who wrote (8190)	4/26/1998 5:09:00 PM
From: Zog	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 16892

Well, it appears that my trading experience has been very different from yours. I think I will continue to buy at the bid - perhaps I will be buying the shares you are selling! (VBG). Do you use level 2 quotes? If not, you should check it out sometime, it is amazing what you can learn. I am waiting for the day when the MM have to open their limit books - that will really equalize the game (that is why I doubt they ever will)! One more thing, at NYSE (and I believe AMEX), orders are filled on the basis of the time the order has been at that price. So, if you are the first in to buy at the bid (say the price drops 1/16 and you happen to be the first order in at to buy at that price) you WILL get filled first - before any of the "big guys". Since the size of the bid and ask is actually the number of shares available (unlike the NAZ where they mean nothing expect for ISLD (a very major flaw with using ISLD)), you can sometimes predict when the bid will move. Believe me, trading listed stocks is very different from NAZ stocks. Another aside (sorry for the rather disjointed discussion!), but even if it appears that you happen to be the only one buying/selling at a price, you may not get filled even if you see orders go through at your price (on the NAZ). MM love to jerk ISLD orders around, and many times they will trade around you - it is no where near as transparent as NYSE. One more reason why I think MMs make lawyers and used-car salespeople appear like saints! Michael

To: gbh who wrote (8190)	4/26/1998 10:18:00 PM
From: Morpher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 16892

Michael, if there are MMs at some bid, and you put a bid in at the same price, you will only get those shares if the MMs move off that bid to a lower bid. That's not true. If you are at the bid and somebody preferences ISLD or uses a broker that automatically checks against ISLD (like Datek), you'll get filled. However, if your ISLD bid is the current best bid, then a market sell anywhere on earth should go to you (and I believe it does). That's also incorrect. Most orders go to MMs and they have an option to fill them from their own inventory at your price without touching your order.

To: gbh who wrote (8190)	4/26/1998 11:34:00 PM
From: dumbmoney	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 16892

However, if your ISLD bid is the current best bid, then a market sell anywhere on earth should go to you (and I believe it does). Nope. Even then you are not guaranteed a fill. It is totally at the discretion of the market makers. (You should get filled if a sell order is sent to ISLD, of course). You could actually be disadvantaged by using ISLD (versus a market maker) because you can't get filled by someone using SOES. Personal experience: one time my sell order was alone on the ask all day and I never got filled, even though many thousands of shares were traded at that price. This is life on the Nasdaq...