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To: PROLIFE who wrote (16246)5/23/1998 9:43:00 PM
From: Grainne  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
DCF, I have been doing a little reading about the Promise Keepers. Did you know that their founder, coach Bill McCartney, defended a couple of his players who were accused of date rape, on the grounds that non-violent rape was not really rape? Lovely guy!

outnow.com

Anyway, here are some comments from various groups who are concerned about the Promise Keepers:

Promise Keepers Watch

Promise Keepers is one of the most important new
organizations on the right. Deceptive and carefully
conceived, Promise Keepers attempts to mainstream its
image by using a seductive vocabulary of male-only
self-improvement, opposition to religious
"denominationalism," and an alleged commitment to racial
"reconciliation," to advance the strategic political agenda
of the Christian right.
Along with many organizations of the Right, at the present time Promise Keepers is directing its
attack mainly at the position of women in society. Promise Keepers' leaders understand that they
can never reach their goal of creating a theocratic, male supremacist society unless they reverse the
legal and social gains made by women.

The Promise Keepers movement represents an
extreme, charismatic-evangelical theology which
makes even other religious groups uncomfortable.
Promise Keepers grew out of the "Latter Rain
Movement," which embraces extreme, even bizarre
and cultish religious practices-- speaking in tongues,
direct revelation, and even the authoritarian
"Shepherding-Discipleship" tradition which teaches a
dangerous, manipulative "leader-follower"
relationship. Theologically, this group's roots are
apocalyptic, concerning Armageddon and raising
"Joel's Army" to combat transgressors and sinners,
and prepare the way for a "Kingdom" at the end of
the world. This sect follows the theology of
"Dominionism," which teaches that Christians are
commanded by god to occupy and govern all
institutions in anticipation of the "final days" and the
Second Coming. "Bible Law" must govern the person,
families, neighborhoods, communities and
governmental institutions; there is no separating of
state and church; the police powers of the
government are harnessed to ensure that Bible law is
enforced. Reconstructionist members of the Promise
Keepers call for a judicial system and government
based literally upon Old Testament Bible law, and
proscribes the penalty of death for a wide range of
offenses including adultery, "witchcraft," blasphemy
or disobedience to parents. It is no accident that
these doctrines are never mentioned in Promise
Keeper literature intended for their rank-and-file
members.





Promise Keepers is a male-centered movement
with a homophobic agenda -- and a questionable
record concerning racial justice. Despite lipservice
about "being worthy of women," PK'ers are exhorted
to "take back" governance of the heterosexual,
nuclear family . "Women, keep silent in the churches;
men are heads of the household, as Christ is the
head of the church", paraphrasing St. Paul. Promise
Keepers defines a "godly man" as one who obeys the
church and is involved in a monogamous,
heterosexual relationship. What about gays and
lesbians? Single moms? Divorcees? Are they "godly"?
It's true that some women do want men to become
more involved in domestic relationships. But not all
women opt for that; presuming that all or even most
women want the sort of male-dominated marital
situation in a nuclear family which PK leaders say
they do is arrogant and presumptive. And the record
concerning blacks is highly problematic. The Promise
Keepers seem to distinguish between what they term
"reconciliation" and true equality. Black men are
"godly" if they fit into the PK heterosexual template.

Is this a manipulative movement? Just as PK
literature, with its abundance of sports metaphors
and catchy, yet amorphous slogans renders it difficult
for participants to get "a handle" on, is manipulative,
so is the role of the PK movement. Men in the
Promise Keepers movement are given a steady
stream of literature and teachings, most of which are
based on emotionally evocative, but vague slogans.
Worse yet, the PK "huddles" or local groups reinforce
the group's doctrines through peer pressure -- not
rational persuasion and discourse-- where men are
probed by other participants and compelled to
"confess" and reveal highly personal, even
confidential facts about their life. PK events are
orchestrated through the use of literally hours of
verbal pounding, repetitive use of content-void
slogans (often employing a sports vocabulary), group
reinforcement, heightened states of emotional
excitement bordering on the hysterical (accounting for
the "waves" of joyous weeping, crying, public praying
and other emotive outbursts) and more. Promise
Keepers plays on all sides of men's emotions and
upbringing. It exploits doubts about being "worthy"
but then caters to a fantasy of "taking charge" and
being "head of household." Any dispassionate
examination of twentieth century political and social
movements would suggest a red flag about any group
that bases so much on emotional outburst,
outpourings and sloganeering.

Promise Keepers should also be scrutinized for
another reason -- it offers simplistic solutions to
complex problems. The world isn't like that. Is there
any evidence, other than the anecdotal tales in PK
literature, to suggest that followers of this movement
really do become "better fathers and husbands"? If
so, where? How long does this change last? There are
other alternatives besides the exclusively Christian
religious conversion offered as a solution by PK,
which can help families cope, even in today's
stressful environment.

Promise Keepers is a threat to one of the most
important pillars of contemporary civil society --
the survival of secular institutions, and the
preservation of state-church separation. "Joel's
Army" of "godly men" seek to prepare the way for the
Second Coming of Christ. In a diverse, pluralistic
America founded upon the Bill of Rights and the
Constitution, Promise Keepers represents a backlash
against the rights of women, gays and other
segments of society who don't conform to
fundamentalist dictates and stereotypes. We consider
Promise Keepers as just another religious ploy to
promote a fundamentalist social and religious
agenda, and to create a cultural environment wherein
one must be religious in order to be considered a
decent human being. The Promise Keepers threaten
the cherished principles of First Amendment based
state-church separation, and the liberties of Atheists,
other nonbelievers, and minority religious groups --
male or female, gay or straight.




To: PROLIFE who wrote (16246)5/23/1998 10:51:00 PM
From: Sam Ferguson  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
Since I am also the Fathers son he lives in me. You try to seek yours in a dead man. I have my my salvation in the Father in me.

I have no problem except your proselyting for your beliefs and I expect I would bet If you want to help me then give to my favorite charity. Offer some in Sam's Christ name. I preach a living Father of all humanity. We reap what we sow. You seem to look over that from Jesus words. For your information you keep pressing for me to explain, the Illuminati is a mystical order started from the Essenes and Mary the mother was an Essense Colombe in their ritual. We were shown thru preparedness to be worthy. I had lessons year round for 14 years. Many mysteries were revealed. Having completed the earthly lessons in that order I was installed as an Illuminati (one who is illuminated and knowledgeable. You want proof prepare yourself. Before you see God your Ego must be subdued completely.

I know you like the easy way you were taught but your proof you claim is phony as my picture on a $100 bill would be. My destiny is none of your business. Wipe your own sinful ways of promoting falsehoods or you will reap what you sow. Praying will never get it done. God doesn't judge as you claim. Natures laws do not require it. The judment you speak of is stranger than fiction. You are your own judge in the hereafter and you cannot possibly lie to yourself.

You have the audacity to say a newborn baby is a sinner when he is fresh made by God and any such thought just is an insult to God for our creation. I care not to worshop a God like that for I would have to have respect. The Christ in me is just the opposite of your portrayal. Your religion tell you Christ dwells in us, God in your bible tells you no man (I'm beginning to have doubts of your qaulification) shall tell others who is God. He says he writes his laws on our hearts and minds and our sins will be remembered no more.

Now why in your hell don't quit saying you teach truth when you constantly lie. I thought at first it was ignorance. I'm still not sure. I just know my Christ and have no fear of the hereater. I have always lived and always will. My physical body is an inhabitant of this world imprisoning my sould. The body I share is death for the Spirit. If you could read your bible you would see Paul's analogy to seed. The seed must be buried and die before it can rise again as a flower. My Spirit must die in the flesh and is in the process of that. I am here to perform service for God and earn my purification for the purpose created me.

Seems an old folks tale says "Be sure your sins will find you out." Now that is a moral truth and proved by natures law. Seems to me like your word of God says seek to show yourself improved. Seek and you shall find. Find what dear brother, but the Christ you keep locked up in your heart.

You se all I have ever claimed here is the Father and I are one. You trey to change that to I am the God of your concept. I'm not and never will be. But God is my life on all planes of life.

To spice it up and get you further to realize your evil thoughts God is with me from the erection to the resurrection of me. Sex is a natural thing for co creating with God. Yet you condemn a man to hell because of the nature he had at birt and carries as long as he is in matter. Like all evil it can be abused and Christians today abuse it by telling a child in puberty he is sinning because nature arouses him in puberty which is God's plan. You create a sin out of natural acts with your word and then threaten people with it. My what a good moral person you are. I'm surprised you gamble on the stock market. You preach against gambling and SI is strictly for stock trading and gambling is gambling no matter how you name it.

Without Christ there would be no Sam in the here or hereafter.