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To: Grainne who wrote (16884)6/2/1998 9:38:00 PM
From: PROLIFE  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
Oh yeah Christene, we are all like that, in fact I think I already got my ticket for that......:)

Careful what you post. Someone is liable to start posting the homosexual sites on the net here.....do you think that would be good press??

I won't get mad at you anymore....I feel sorry for you and your family




To: Grainne who wrote (16884)6/2/1998 10:11:00 PM
From: Sam Ferguson  Respond to of 39621
 
Just some more good proof:

The Christians' responsibility in
anti-semitism.

According to the Christian "historical" version, the "praefectus Iudaeae Pontius
Pilatus" (the prefect of Judea, P. Pilate) was compelled to liberate an outlaw,
perhaps a revolutionary, as the Gospels depict him, instead of the preacher,
because the people preferred Barabbas to Jesus. He even tried to implore the
Jews, but they insisted crying: "Crucify him! Crucify him!" and were resolute in
their decision to liberate the outlaw (the Fourth Gospel says the "robber") and
to let Romans execute the man who is said to have cured blind people and
lepers. It is, of course, a topsy-turvy absurdity: reasonable persons would find it
much more logical for the robber to be executed, and a stay of execution
granted the preacher, instead of the other way around; also for an authoritarian
stance to have been taken by the procurator instead of by the suppliants; also
for the people to have desired to set the healer and the preacher free, rather
than the thief... Something fraudulent is hidden behind this presentation!
How many Christians have undertaken to study that historical period closely?
How many have asked themselves whether the presumed custom of liberating a
prisoner on the occasion of the Jewish holiday of Passover really existed or
not? How many have read the works of the Jewish authors Philo and Josephus
Flavius, Jesus' near contemporaries, or even know they exist? These two
authors, who describe in detail customs and events in ancient Palestine, never
mention such a custom and always depict Pilate as a cynical and hard
procurator who never asked permission of anybody and who, even less, ever
submitted himself to the popular will of the Jews but, on the contrary, always
ruled with a strong hand and atrocious cruelty. The Pilate of the Gospels, in
front of the shouting crowd, declares himself defeated and announces
blamelessly: "I'll wash my hands, you are responsible for this innocent blood,
not I!" and then sets free a man many theologians want to identify as a
revolutionary, one who fought the might of the Roman invaders.
At this point, into the mouth of the Jews there has been put a sentence
that is a real ideological manifesto: "...Then answered all the people, and
said: - His blood be on us and on our children..." (Matt. 27, 25). This is the
starting point of a two-thousand years old anti-Semitism. The Jews of
Jesus' days seem aware of their fate and, what is more curious, ready to accept
it: the terrible war against the Romans, the destruction of Jerusalem and the
Temple, the massacre of hundreds of thousands of them, the Diaspora, the
persecutions perpetrated by the Christians, the Inquisition, the infamous name
"perfidious Jews", two thousand years of oppression and extermination...
Well then, here is a dramatic confirmation; the authors who composed the four
Gospel texts called canonical by the Church (meaning they are the only ones
that evidence the truth) had without a doubt a fixed idea: they had to discredit
the Hebrew race and cover it with shame for having wanted the death of
the "son of God"; so sanctifying and excusing Christianity's historically
hostile attitude towards Judaism.
Racism was generated and nourished by this inexpedient affirmation of the
Gospel according to Matthew.
Nevertheless, if the infamy of having killed the Lord belongs to anyone, it is not
the Jews but the Romans, of that we can be sure. In fact they had invaded
Palestine, incorporated it into their empire, and made its inhabitants subjects of
the emperor; they painstakingly repressed every national-religious rising,
especially one in a country very difficult to subdue; a country where, for many
centuries, prophecies had spoken of a Messiah-king, son of David, who should
repeat the deeds of the ancient sovereign who had created the united kingdom
of the twelve tribes of Israel; a country where messianic movements (Essenes
and Zealots) had arisen and grown strong as never before.

6 - The awaited Messiah?

What on earth were the Gospel authors interested in hiding with their
adulteration of the historical truth? That is exactly what we are looking for. The
trouble is that the man Pilate's soldiers had arrested never wanted to
found a new non-Judaic religion; he never thought of considering the ancient
agreement between Yahweh and his people cancelled; nor did he ever preach
to the non- circumcised; there are different explicit occasions in the New
Testament in which Jesus speaks of his unequivocal resolve not to preach to
non-Jews, but only "...rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Mt 10, 6)
[see also: Mt 15, 21-28]; he was born and grew up a Hebrew, and as a
Hebrew he lived and died, absolutely determined to remain such.
"Christ" (Christos = anointed, a term that translates the Aramaic word Mashiha
= Messiah = anointed into Greek) has been made the Romans' butt on purpose,
and the Romans tried and executed one so named because one of the
messianic movements of Jesus' days (which were similar to the Essenic
ones, if not identical to those of the Essenes who were installed at Kirbeth
Qumran, the authors of the famous and comtroversial Dead Sea Scrolls)
identified in his person the fated one of whom the messianic prophecies
spoke: the chosen of God, the son of David, the anointed of Yahweh, who
was to return the house of Israel to its sons, taking it away from the
pagan usurpers, away from the hated family of the Herodian monarchs,
and away from the corrupt priestly caste of the Sadducees.
Such a man could not end his days but on the Roman gallows, the cross, with a
tri-lingual inscription on it: "Melek hay-Yehudim - Basileus ton Ioudaion - Rex
Iudaeorum (= King of the Jews)", whose meaning is more than evident:
sentenced to death because he was recognised guilty of rebellion against the
imperial authority, since he attempted to re-establish David's crown on the
throne of Israel.
In fact, one thousand years before, the first man to reign over the united twelve
tribes of Israel was David, and he also made Jerusalem his capital city,and there
he wanted to build a huge temple to the Lord (not that he brought this project
into being, but rather his son Solomon). David was the first Messiah (anointed
King) of Israel, and to the Jews the idea that the Messiah united spiritual with
political power causes no repugnance (exactly like to the Hindus the idea that
the Mahatma Ghandi united spiritual with political power causes no
repugnance); on the contrary, they have no problem accepting that he even be a
warrior who fights and defeats all the enemies of God's nation.
The term Messiah comes from the typical ceremony of regal investiture:
unction or anointing (Mashiha = anointed). The king of Israel had not only
political dignity, he was also to be the favourite of God, as he had particular
faith and devotion to the Lord of Israel; he received from the hands of the High
Priest the ointment of myrrh, sweet cinnamon, spikenard, cassia, and olive oil
(Exodus 30, 23-24) and with it he was declared "anointed of the Lord", that
means earthly representative of that sovereignty over the Jewish nation which is
due only to Yahweh.



To: Grainne who wrote (16884)6/2/1998 10:42:00 PM
From: Sam Ferguson  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 39621
 
Christine here is another dangerous group using religion for power and corruption:

THE CHRISTIAN COALITION:



Every Knee Shall Bow

By Annie Laurie Gaylor

I recently spent the weekend with the Christian Coalition. I wasn't exactly a spy at the annual "Road to Victory" conference in Washington, D.C. on September 8-9, 1995. Prof. Michael Hakeem has given me a more honorable sociological title: that of "participant observer."
When I saw a blurb advertising the Christian Coalition conference, I couldn't believe what a rogues' gallery would be convening--collected together would be many of the most obnoxious and sinister right-wing power brokers imaginable.
A parade of some 42 featured speakers was scheduled over an intense, two-day period. Besides Pat Robertson and Ralph Reed of the Christian Coalition, speakers included Newt Gingrich,Judge Robert Bork, Jay Sekulow of the "ACLJ," William ("Mr. Virtuous") Bennett, Phyllis
Schlafly, Watergate's star convict Chuck Colson. Plus most of the announced GOP candidates would be dancing in attendance: Phil Gramm, Robert Dole, Bob Dornan, Lamar Alexander, Richard Lugar, Pat Buchanan and "Ambassador" Alan Keyes.

Once I signed up under a pseudonym, I started to feel like the Christian Coalition's best buddy, receiving several calls at home in the evenings from convention staff members asking for my "alter
ego."

Next to phone was "Jinny," the Wisconsin Christian Coalition leader. I worried about her a bit. At a recent hearing on an antiabortion bill at the Wisconsin capitol, she had aggressively tracked down my mother, whom I was standing beside, demanding her name, and introducing herself proudly as the Christian Coalition state "chairman." Her phone conversation was equally aggressive: When would I arrive? Where was I staying? Would I attend the Saturday state caucus? I determined to avoid this woman at all costs.
Dan, my personal expert in fundamentalism since he had been one, informed me that I should not be seen without a bible. He even inscribed a bible with various fundamentalist platitudes, dedicated to my fictitious personage, just for authenticity. I borrowed a Costume-jewelry cross and packed my "Republican outfit," a conservative suit-dress.

I had planned to arrive mid-afternoon on the Thursday preceding the Friday and Saturday conference in time to visit the U.S. Capitol and locate the sculpture of feminists housed in its bowels which had recently been in the news. Busts of Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Lucretia Mott and Susan B. Anthony had been given to Congress in 1921 by the National Woman's Party. The depictions of our great feminist foremothers soon found their way into the "crypt," underneath the
rotunda.
Feminists had asked that the statue be moved back to the rightful position in the rotunda in time to celebrate the 75th anniversary of women's right to vote on August 26, 1995. The resolution passed the Senate, but guess on whose desk it languished? Newt Gingrich was "too busy" to attend to it, and the sculpture remains buried in the crypt (see photo, page 4), where I am sure Newt & Co. plan to symbolically bury all women's rights.
As all well-laid plans stray, so did mine. Plane delays kept me from arriving until after federal buildings closed for the day, and my lost luggage was not delivered until bedtime. I arrived at the Washington Hilton by 7:30 a.m. (6:30 CST) and registered without a hitch. The
scene in the enormous ballroom resembled a political convention. I grabbed an obscure seat in the very back.

A big disembodied baritone voice boomed out introductions, while an irritating spotlight roved the room wildly in accompaniment to marching-as-to-war music set way past the ear-piercing 60-decibel range. It was obviously enjoyed by the enormous audience of roaring, cheering, ovationing, clapping Christians. A pallid-eyed Ralph Reed, as boyish-faced as ever, welcomed us after we Pledged Allegiance,
stood and prayed for an antiabortion invocation (there were three or four invocations and all strayed into antiabortion ideology) and listened to an emotional rendition of the National Anthem.
Some participants "amen'ed" following every Pledge of Allegiance.

Ralph informed us that 4,164 people had registered, making it this year's "largest gathering of pro-family activists." "Pro-family," I soon discovered, is the new euphemism of the Religious
Right. Having already usurped "pro-life," as if the rest of us are "pro-death," the Religious Right is now determined to paint itself as the only Americans who have families or care about them!

Reed introduced the conference's theme, not an original idea but repeated by many speakers:
"We will ride in the back of the bus no longer. People of faith are taking their seat at the table."
(That might be all right if I didn't have a sneaking suspicion that the rest of us are on the menu!)

Reed's speech was arrogant, taking full credit for the November election and all resulting changes.
Since the last convention had taken place, he boasted:

"Tom Foley has been replaced by Newt Gingrich.

"George Mitchell has been replaced by Bob Dole.

"Howard Metzenbaum, one of our favorite members," he said sarcastically, "has been replaced by
a pro-family, pro-life Catholic.

"Ann Richards is doing Dorito commercials.

"Mario Cuomo has begun a second career.

"I know Rush Limbaugh. Rush Limbaugh is a friend of mine. You, sir, are no Rush Limbaugh."
(Many appreciative jeering guffaws from audience.)

"These political swaps are like CBS deciding to replace Connie Chung with Newt Gingrich's
mother. (Pause) Keep praying.

"Because of the efforts of people in this room and millions like you, Jocelyn Elders is the former
Surgeon General.

"As we go into 1996," said this man with a perpetual chip on his shoulder, "prepare yourself for
the same kinds of insults and taunts . . . They had names for candidates who were guilty of the
unpardonable crime of going to church, and," he added hastily, "synagogue, reading the bible, and
praying daily. They call them extremist, radical right-wing, Christian Coalition types. We call them
Senator, Congressman, Governor." Unspoken, of course, was the thought that Reed intends to
add to his list the title of President.

After catty remarks about the much-booed President Clinton and others, Reed summarized his
goals:

Passing vouchers for religious schools. ("I want to live in a nation where the President and
First Lady aren't the only Americans in public housing who can afford to send their child to
private school.")
Banning "partial birth" abortion (whatever that is).
Ending government funds to Planned Parenthood.
Abolishing the much-hated Department of Education.
Passing a constitutional amendment, the "Religious Equality Amendment," needed, he
averred, because "students in a public school or citizens in the public square [are]
discriminated against for expressing their religious beliefs."

After telling various phony-sounding horror stories about discrimination against Christians, Reed
noted "the most important thing--which candidate will win your support."

Don't you consider that an odd remark from the executive director of an organization avowedly
nonpartisan, which is prohibited by law from endorsing any candidates?

Daily press quoted him widely when he said: "We do not seek to be a wholly owned subsidiary of
the Republican Party or any party."

His boss, the televangelist, must have much-aggravated the stealthy Ralph when, later during the
conference, Robertson admitted the real goal--to make the GOP a wholly owned subsidiary of
the Christian Coalition (more about that later).

"The question, as we go into 1996, is not who we will endorse, but who will endorse our agenda,"
Reed added.

He concluded with a sermon: "My prayer today is, as the world looks at you and us as a
movement . . . that they see followers of a humble carpenter from Galilee whose followers would
have crowned Him King. He chose the humility of the cross instead . . . We bear the name which
is above every name. OEvery knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess.' Our responsibility
is not to win," he demurred with forked tongue, "but to be found faithful when He returns; our
burden, to remember whom we serve."

By the conclusion of this speech early Friday morning, I noticed comedian Al Franken (of
"Saturday Night Live"), looking distressed, walking rapidly past. Sitting on steps two seats away
from me, he made some whispered criticisms to a companion. The woman next to me hushed him
in an irritated voice. In my confederate pose, I felt kind of bad. During the noon hour, I had even
more mixed feelings when I saw all the picketers outside the hotel. It took every ounce of self
control not to join them!

When the few scheduled breaks came, it was a relief to walk the mile or so to my own hotel
through blocks of restaurants and Embassy Row, and see the diversity of normal Americans going
about their day, oblivious to the machinations of the Christian Coalition. Perhaps that comfort was
illusory. While we go about our daily lives, is the Religious Right stealing our country? Then again,
chances were good that most of the people I passed in the street were at least nominally
Christian, and, in Washington, D.C., conservative. While it seems possible to have a Religious
Right takeover, is the Christian Coalition ever apt to be mainstream in most parts of our nation?
The extreme Christian Coalition depends on stealth and low voter turnout, not mass appeal. I
hope.

What were the other participants like? I did see some Total Women in the audience, wearing five
coats of mascara, big hair and dressed for success. But these were Total Women who looked
more like lobbyists than stay-at-home wives. The more typical participants were portly men,
looking very Baptist, with paunches and gray hair, often accompanied by their wives. There were
many twenty and thirty-somethings in the crowd, most of them looking like young professionals.

But you know what I didn't see? Anyone holding bibles. I kept my heavy one in my carryall until I
could unload it. I was also one of the few women wearing crosses! I was glad to doff my
borrowed cross during the second day of the conference (it made me feel like I was in a vampire
movie). I can only conclude that I was seeing a new kind of Christian, one unfamiliar to someone
like Dan, whose Christian missionary career had been noticeably devoid of politics. This is the
new breed of Christians who plan to "take over the country," as both Pat Robertson and Reed
have promised to do.

The only person who came up and asked me why I was there was a reporter with Associated
Press from Washington, D.C. Since I was sitting amidst participants, I replied vaguely until his
questions became too pointed, and finally drew him aside and explained my presence, hoping he
would be intrigued and ask more about it. He displayed not one iota of interest in hearing from the
"other side," but politely promised not to blow my cover.

By the conclusion of the conference, I felt numb. My ears were numb! Everyone seemed to be an
assaultive clapper! Imagine 4,200 people all clapping at the same time as loudly as possible every
few minutes all day for two days! It became deafening. I sought out what seemed to be a corner
for young(ish) women, but once in a while some man sat next to me and felt compelled to clap as
loud as possible right in my ear. I finally turned to one fellow and said, in my best Scarlett O'Hara
imitation, "My, you can certainly clap loudly." To his credit, he seemed to get the hint and reduced
the volume, and, even better, soon left.

The Friday evening "entertainment" preceding speeches by Pat Robertson, Etc., was a real test of
endurance. Special effects included psychedelic crosses whirling around the front wall. The
evening preceded with the ubiquitous Pledge and Prayer. The first entertainer was Steve Fry, who
sang in something described as a "Praise and Worship" style. He put up some impossible-to-read
lyrics on a projector, but most everyone seemed to sing along with familiarity to the repetitious,
droning songs. This is the best entertainer the Christian music industry has to offer? Pathetic! He
kept urging the crowd to stand at attention to his bible-based songs, and soon the conference
changed eerily from political rally to prayer meeting. Every time the word "Lord" was sung
(constantly), many waved their hands in caressing gestures, as if hoping to feel their invisible God.

When I thought I couldn't bear much more of this, in came Phil Driscoll, a self-conscious Rod
Stewart wannabee in Christian drag, who alternated rock vocals with saxophone all at the top of
his lungs, interjecting mindless religious injunctions. Even the prayerful woman next to me was
covering her ears. But the crowd waxed enthusiastic for a very long half hour.

Pat Robertson, introduced with great fanfare, bragged in his inimitable quavering voice--which
sounds like he is ignoring some urgent call of nature--about how quickly he has met many of his
original goals, such as having a "conservative majority" in Congress. Then he made his mistake.
The chubby-cheeked Christian entrepreneur said another goal was to become a "significant" voice
in the GOP (stands for God's Own Party, I guess). "Actually, I said something else, but Ralph
told me I couldn't say it because the press is here," he added. "The Press," of course, picked up
on Robertson's admission that he plans to take over the GOP. He may be shrewd but he's not too
smart.

In another dumb blooper, Robertson whined: "And now they accuse us of being power-mad and
of stealth tactics because we go knocking on doors and tell them to vote for candidates."
Lobbying groups with c(4) status are forbidden to tell people to vote for candidates.

While waxing rhapsodic that "God plus one equals a majority," Robertson claimed the Christian
Coalition is dominant in Republican parties in 18 states and has substantial input in another 13
states. He urged more seats in the House filled by representatives with political agendas "sent by
heaven."

The gist of his speech was nostalgia for the 1950's. (He made me nostalgic for the 1970's.) Until
1960, he said, "our nation considered itself one nation under God" and "public affirmations to God
were considered an essential part of education." Abortion was illegal in every state, and "We
were proud to be considered as god-fearing, patriotic American citizens." He vowed to repeal
every Supreme Court decision in the 1960's and 1970's, "with the exception of civil rights
legislation which we do not particularly want to reverse." The federal government was spoken
of as the enemy in biblical terms of vituperation. "We must return to biblical morality and reliance
on self, not the federal government," he said.

In a masterpiece of self-contradiction, Robertson blasted federal money subsidizing "the having of
illegitimate children by unmarried mothers," then sanctimoniously called every baby "a creation of
God." The crowd "amen'ed." He concluded by vowing to work "until this nation is once again
One Nation Under God."

Another full day of gruesome personalities was on the Saturday agenda. I made a getaway while
the extremely popular pre-lunch speaker Alan Keyes was still making his mean-black-preacher
antiabortion pitch, rushing back to my hotel to get my camera, taking a taxi to the Capitol and
finally locating the elusive suffragist statue in record time. I got back just a bit late, having neatly
avoided any chance of running into my state caucus, to the three workshops. Imagine my distaste
to find myself waiting beside Ron Rosenberger, the smug, unattractive student and Christian
convert responsible for the Supreme Court decision ordering the University of Virginia to
subsidize his puerile Christian rag! Yuck! Rosenberger joined Judge Roy Moore, the adversary of
our Alabama chapter, in giving a presentation on the need to force religion into public spheres.
Moore sported a dismayingly goofy grin.

Pat Buchanan was the evening's keynote, the Christian Coalition's golden boy. In case you didn't
catch his speech on C-Span, it is summarized on the following pages. He gave a poor, mumbling,
disjointed speech--and he was a professional speechwriter! That didn't bother his 4,200 fans,
many cheering, "Go Pat Go!"

As I left the conference hall for the final time, I got a big kick out of seeing two cute young men
with big smiles across their faces walking through the hall, wearing shorts, earrings and holding
hands. Take that, Pat!

I flew home by way of Chicago, where my twin brother had arranged to pick me up for a
rendezvous with a visiting cousin and a friend from high school to go see the spectacular Monet
exhibit at the Chicago Museum of Art. I'm not sure what Monet's religious views were, but his
artistry is a secular celebration of the natural world. I have always found the impressionist
exhibits an antidote to the dark, bleak, crude Middle Ages religious art that fills museums.
Everywhere I looked at this exhibit, I saw beauty. Monet proved an ideal antidote to the Christian
Coalition.



To: Grainne who wrote (16884)6/4/1998 10:03:00 AM
From: Father Terrence  Respond to of 39621
 
Christine:

The madman's in his own self-made hell. I say let 'em roast. Anyone got some marshmallows?

Father Terrence