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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (17884)	6/22/1998 3:45:00 AM
From: Chris land	Respond to of 39621

Raymond, You've presented a good argument worthy of study on my part. I have printed your post and will try to respond to each one. It will take some time as I've been stumped by some of them myself so please be patient. Chris

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (17884)	6/23/1998 1:11:00 AM
From: Chris land	Respond to of 39621

Raymond, <<<1 Matthew 2:1 Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king (So Jesus was born about the year 6 B.C.) Luke 2: 1-7 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. ([And] this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)... And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. (so Jesus was born about the year 7 C.E. FULLY THIRTEEN YEARS LATER)>>> The question we need to ask here is when did the taxing occur and who was in power. Jesus could not have been born any later than 4 BC for a number of reasons. King Herod died in the year 6 BC but we know from scriptures and even history that he was in power during the birth of Christ and is the one who demanded of the wise men that they lead him to him. After a period of between one and two years Herod realized that the wise men had no intentions of leading him to the Christ child and was so enraged that demanded all children two years of age and under be killed. Jesus family having been warned in a dream departed to Egypt before the massacre. After Herod died in 6 BC his kingdom was divided amongst his sons. Archelaus ruled over Judah and Samaria but was so wicked (The reason Joseph came back but removed to Galilee) that Augustus banished him to Gaul in 6 A.D. Caesar Augustus had not one but three census' taken. The first was in 28 BC, the second around 4 BC and the third and final in 6 A.D. Caesar had given Cyrenius authority over Syria from about 4 B.C to 1 A.D. Then in 6 A.D. after Archelaus was banished he was given jurisdiction over Judah until the first procurater (Coponius) was established. .. ...When Cyrenius had now disposed of Archelaus's money and when the taxings were come to a conclusion, which were made in the thirty seventh year of Ceasars' victory over Antony at Actuim. - Josephus Victory of Actuim took place 2 Sep 31 B.C. Encyclopedia Britannica In Luke Chapter 2 the writer was referring to the taxation that took place while Cyrenius' jurisdiction was limited to Syria . This was second census or taxation which took place in around 4 B.C. Just a little bit of research reveals that the reference was to the second taxation and not the third. I will work on the rest if you desire. Chris

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (17884)	6/23/1998 2:28:00 AM
From: Chris land	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Raymond, <<2 Acts 9: 26-29 and Acts 26: 19-21(Paul is saved) Galatians 1:15-22(Was he really?) >> In Acts 9:26-29 the disciples didn't know if he was trying to infiltrate the church or was really sincere about being a christian. When he talks about being separated from his mothers womb he's briefly touching on the doctrine of predetermined election(predestination). Mind you this is something known by God but has no bearing on the outcome of man's accountability to God. <<3 Acts 9: 7(heard voice, saw no man) Acts 22: 9(no voice, saw light)>> And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. 9:7 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid, but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. 22:9 In other words they heard a voice but had no idea of what was being said. There was a similar incident that you can read about in John 12: Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. The people therefore that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him In other words they heard something but didn't know what was being said because spiritually they were deaf. Chris

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (17884)	6/23/1998 3:06:00 AM
From: Chris land	Respond to of 39621

Raymond, << 4 Matt. 10: 2-4, Mark 3:16-19 (Jesus apostles' names, the twelfth is Lebbeus who's surname was Thaddeus) Luke 6: 14-16 (apostles' names now different, the twelfth in Luke is Judas the brother of James)>> The twelve apostles Peter , also called Cephas or Simon Andrew, Peters brother Bartholemew James, son of Zebedee,surnamed Boanerges John, son of Zebedee, also surnamed Boanerges Simon the zealot or the Canaanite Philip Thomas also called Didymus Matthew the publican James, son of Alpheus Judas, the brother of James, also called Lebbeus surnamed Thaddeus Judas Icariot, the betrayer Chris

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (17884)	6/23/1998 4:06:00 AM
From: Chris land	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

<<5 Matthew 27:5 (Judas hangs himself) Acts 1:18 (Judas falls headlong, his bowels gush)>> This is one in which I can only speculate at. Acts 1:18 Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. First of all it never says he died by this act. In fact I have never heard of any person ever dying like this. In Matt 27:3 we read how he tried to bring the money back to the chief priests whom he thought was backing him all the way, but they only held him in derision. He went out to hang himself but we don't know what happened before the act was successfully carried out. Nowhere does it say he immediately hanged himself. He perhaps had time to reflect upon his betrayal Jesus, and what his life was now worth. Peter had denied Jesus three times but scriptures say that when Jesus turned to look at him he went out and wept bitterly. What's to say Judas wasn't so remorsefull that inwardly he just completely fell apart inside over what he did. Perhaps mentally speaking he was so overwhelmed by his crime that he had a mental breakdown and suicide seemed the only escape. Consider the root word bowels: 4698 fig. pity or sympathy: -bowels, inward affection, + tender mercy. The scriptures say he repented himself. He confessed to the chief priests and elders that he had betrayed innnocent blood. so by the law the priests should have offered up sin sacrifices for him. ....and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him. Why didn't they? Judas realized he had been used and it only added to his misery. Bottom line is he fell apart inwardly and then hanged himself because his grief was too much to bear. Chris