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Strategies & Market Trends : Asia Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ramsey Su who wrote (4746)	6/23/1998 1:09:00 AM
From: Stitch	Respond to of 9980

Ramsey, <<your last post is just about the most uneducated post I have ever read on SI.>> Instead of belittling how about an honest debate? You guys from the HK thread seem to get your jollies knocking other people's post without taking the high road. While Clark's was clearly a bombastic post I think he raises some interesting points and would love to see someone with your knowledge debate it by each point. I do not agree with everything he has said and believe China has shown incredible rates of reform. But do not doubt for a minute that Zhu is up against incredibly tough resistance that would have China simmer in her own juices as she has done for centuries. Help us understand. Post something that is other then mere shadow boxing. Best, Stitch

To: Ramsey Su who wrote (4746)	6/23/1998 9:11:00 AM
From: Worswick	Read Replies (6) \| Respond to of 9980

Ramsey ref yours: "Worswick,your last post is just about the most uneducated post I have ever read on SI. ""At that I am in a small way a historian of China..." very very small indeed. Tell me in order of your understanding of the situation in China a few things Ramsey. OK? I'd like your point by point ideas on the things I bring up here. I'd like to know: Is there a body of law in China that relates to remediating trade disputes between Chinese and an investor in China who thinks he has been nicked by his Chinese partner? Who thinks that he has been cheated or been not told the truth in initial "discolsure statements"? Is there any "transparency" what so ever in China in financial statements issued by Chinese banks, or companies? How do you get information that verifiable as an investor in China? Pollution and uncontrolled development are threatening to cause major detriments to the Chinese environment and health. The Chinese army sits at the center of the political elite in China and they are determined to affect a "world role" and a forward position in world politics. The Chinese army answers to no one except itself. Can anyone in China who runs up against the army get "justice" in any court you know of. Population. Basically, it seems to me that the 100 million young, mostly uneducated "country" young men migrating to the Chinese cities won't find work and that these 100 million pissed off young men -without Chinese women because of "male preference" in Chinese famlies - will form the core of a generation of discontent in China that is difficult if not impossible for China to deal with. This underpopulation of dispossessed will eventually turn to traditional tong like criminality and drugs; it will be one of the largest destabilizing forces to the rest of the world, as this group of young men seeks a larger and larger sphere of influence. Meanwhile, in China 99.99% of this group will supply a permanent drag on the economy and it will form the center of hitherto undreamt of urban slums prey to Hitler-like xenophobic visions of Chinse superiority. Finally, at the root of the Chinese ethos, is a particularly Chinese distrust of anything outside the family. This creates an anti-democratic, ruthless, cynical, humorless and anarchistic society where power is everything and individuals are night soil. How am I doing Ramsey? What is your take on the social obligations of the individual Chinese vis a vis his country at this time under communism? Please don't tell me the Chinese are lovely people who just want to be members of a new suburbia and that it is communism that is wrong. As I have said I am a historian of China and there seem to be many constants in all of Chinese history. The cultural revolution did happen. It did happen and was allowed to happen because of characteristics innate in the Chinse character that made it possible. Mass hysteria. Greed. Lack of individual will. Please don't say America is a rotten place rife with race riots, gender discrimination, inequality. I'm not speaking here about America I'm speaking about China. I worry deeply about China. I don't think our establishment here "gets it". The democrats and their running dog capitalist handlers all think China is the greatest thing that ever happened to compounded returns and growth. I mourn the Chinese of good will and perception who stood against Mao and Chiang and who stood against the Ch'ing. The Boxers and their xenophobia are more a manifestation of Chinese society than Dr. Sun. The reason I bet on Japan and Korea more than China is simply because I think China is too large, it has too great a weight of history to carry to grant indiviudals the right to pursue their own destiny. In short I think at its base China is an anti-democratic society tending towards a fascist society and a danger to us all. Fortunately, I doubt that this huge command economy can resist "brilliant individualism" that has propelled and generated most of the great and bad things of the 20th century. At the end as much as they would like to think they can be an island China is not at sea by itself anymore. Hope you are having a good day Ramsey and I'd like a point by point reply here since I was good enough to reply to your querry. I wonder, in a spirit of trying to have a dialog, what your words "Worswick,your last post is just about the most uneducated post I have ever read on SI" has to do with hafving a dialog? Thanks, Thansk so much,