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Strategies & Market Trends : Asia Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ron Bower who wrote (4766)	6/23/1998 2:48:00 PM
From: Doug Soon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 9980

Ron, Thank you very much for your very considered comments. While many of us are familiar with the proverb that includes "don't criticize anyone unless you can walk a mile in his shoes", it is very difficult for us to do. Somehow, you are able to do this and I offer my appreciation. I don't think Worswick has ill intent. His perspective is one that many share unless they are able to get under the fabric and truly understand. China, no doubt, has a long long way to go. It is making many mistakes along the way and will continue to do so. Most of the criticisms are well founded and must be dealt with along the way. Much pain and agony remains. But before another generation or two, (and I think this is realistic), I hope to see China become the respected and admired world participant it is working towards. DS

To: Ron Bower who wrote (4766)	6/23/1998 4:02:00 PM
From: kormac	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 9980

Gang, This hypersensitivity is astounding. When it comes to making comments about people from countries different than your own, a man today is so self-conscious that he can only say good things about others. By the strict measure that is today used for calling somebody racist, this is also racism, but nobody calls it such. Come now, those of us who have met numerous people from different countries certainly will form opinions about the cultural baggage that molds people of every nation. When this is reinforced by reading, then it becomes yard stick to measure by and we are happy to find those who exceed it. So am I only allowed to speak of the shortcomings of my own countrymen? So it seems in this age that is self-conscious to the extreme. The saying "shirt-sleeves to shirt-sleeves in three generations" is of Chinese origin, is it not. It has relevance to what Worswick said about the Chinese family business. Salut.

To: Ron Bower who wrote (4766)	6/23/1998 6:56:00 PM
From: Lee	Respond to of 9980

Ron, You make some good points re: China. As I look at the history of the world, through economics, I find very few instances of countries reaching the gorilla economic state through linear advancement. Toss in all the challenges which China faces, and well, my conclusion is that gorilla status will not happen in my life time. Instead I see Clinton, and the West, propping up expectations to untenable levels. The conclusion I reach is that to expedite reform in China a crash, social unrest, and the rising up of the people is in the works. Hmmm... Indonesia? My worthless $0.02 (worthless in any currency). Best, Lee

To: Ron Bower who wrote (4766)	6/23/1998 7:53:00 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 9980

I agree with you that in time China may surpass Japan, but do not dismiss what Worswick says as racism. A generation of tiny tyrants are being raised in China- the fact is not lost on the Chinese themselves. The one child policy and the preference for male children, as well as the attention devoted to these only children will, imo, have profound social consequences. In some provinces I believe males drastically outnumber females, and I wonder if it will eventually make female children much more valuable and desirable(which would be delightfully ironic). It is a vast social experiment- one of many going on in China, and I think Worswick was merely speculating on the possible outcomes. Crime and drug use frequently are the result of social experiments gone tragically awry, obviously this is one possible outcome for China. Being a "bignose" and a "ghost" myself I obviously do not understand the Chinese the way a Chinese person would. But if we look to what the Chinese artists tell us through literature and film it is that China has been a cruel and dangerous place to live. I cannot fathom what it takes to live through a period like the cultural revolution. Where insanity is demanded, and praised, and rational people are beaten to death, perhaps informed on by their own children. Humor must be hard to hold on to in such a society. Stoicism I think has abounded in China, among the older generations and stoicism would be required to live through what has transpired there in the last 50 years. Group think has been massively promoted in China for ages, so Worswick's idea of Hitler-like xenophobia is not outlandish. And periods like the cultural revolution could easily happen again. The cult of Mao could have had consequences as devastating as the cult of Hitler, if its destructiveness had been turned outward, instead of inward. But instead of going to war with the world the Chinese went to war against their own population- and some of the starvation you speak of was caused by idiotic commune policies, and the diversion of food from the countryside to the cities (Because the Chinese would not lose face by admitting to crop failures). Because there is no great history on individualism in China, it makes atrocities much more likely to happen there. The Chinese have learned that the blade of grass that sticks up gets chopped off.

To: Ron Bower who wrote (4766)	6/24/1998 11:35:00 AM
From: Worswick	Respond to of 9980

Ron in the interest of dialog I do think it is germain to debate - in the midst of all the fluff that is going to come out of parachute journalists in Peking - the "character of China". If I give opinion heres I am not a rascist, I am trying to give my opinion and elicit a response. Your characterizing me as a rascist is not really accurate.... I don't believe. I don't reazlly see how you reach this reference as a racist when I write," "Population. Basically, it seems to me that the 100 million young, mostly uneducated "country" young men migrating to the Chinese cities won't find work and that these 100 million pissed off young men -without Chinese women because of "male preference" in Chinese famlies - will form the core of a generation of discontent in China that is difficult if not impossible for China to deal with. This underpopulation of dispossessed will eventually turn to traditional tong like criminality and drugs; it will be one of the largest destabilizing forces to the rest of the world, as this group of young men seeks a larger and larger sphere of influence. Meanwhile, in China 99.99% of this group will supply a permanent drag on the economy and it will form the center of hitherto undreamt of urban slums prey to Hitler-like xenophobic visions of Chinese superiority". Actually, I hve received numerous grants, fellowships, curatorships relating to Asian studies...all of which have left me deeply suspicious of the current leadership in China. I remember in the early 90's when one of Deng's family members got married. Diane Warwick was reputed to have been paid $3 million to sing at the wedding in Rome. She was flown alone to Rome in a private Boeing. When I heared this I considered it totally bizaare but lately when I consider the uses and abuses of massive power I think it might have happened. Any. Thanks for your input.