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Politics : Libertarian Discussion Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Mike P. who wrote (23)	6/28/1998 9:01:00 PM
From: Turboe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 13062

You have made a great point IMHO. I agree with your ideas to a great extent. But, I feel that the War is lost. It is the modern Vietnam. Since the War officially started in 1986 (drug use was at a low then too) the net effect has really been nothing as to how many people use drugs. And supply has increased while price decreased. The War has done untold harm to out Constitutional Rights-- especially the 4th and the new tactic of civil forfeitures. Now, those civil suits are being used in a greater expanding circle of so called crimes. Will other crimes soon be allowed for "No Knocks"? And as a Libertarian I cannot make a moral choice for others who may want to do drugs. And others cannot do it for me. If there is not a victim, there is not crime. All the deaths attributable to ALL drugs combined do not even make a dent in the death numbers for LEGAL drugs-- even excluding alcohol. Numbers I have seen quote 100,000 plus a year in those deaths. Make ALL drugs legal. What is a bad drug is a personal choice. Use the money used to fight the War in treatment and education. Only 10% of any users of drugs become addicted. Bottom line: The War is far worse than the harm of the drugs. John Stossel (sp?) had an excellent ABC news special a couple of weeks ago: "Sex, Drugs and Consenting Adults" that covered the lies behind the War-- great show.

To: Mike P. who wrote (23)	6/29/1998 8:24:00 AM
From: MeDroogies	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 13062

Drug use and drug related crime decreased in the 80's? News to me. REPORTED LEVELS of both MAY HAVE decreased. But based on the inaccuracies of statistics provided on so many levels in the 80's I'd be skeptical. Personally, I support legalization for several reasons. 1. Taxes. Take the tax revenue from drug use and use it SOLELY for education and treatment. 2. Reduced crime. Think of the cost savings as we no longer use police, armed forces, INS (yes, they get involved), or DEA to monitor and track drug import and distribution...Think of the saved lives as random and chaotic use of guns is reduced. Think of the increased ability to monitor hard-core abusers and their proclivities (real crime-related - mugging, purse snatching, etc.). 3. Choice. I, for one, was lucky enough to have parents who allowed me to try marijuana, alcohol, tobacco. I used only alcohol to any large degree, and had many friends who moved on to cocaine, LSD, crack, alcoholism, etc. My ability to CHOOSE between using and not using led me to understand the problems inherent in drugs. Now, I'm not saying my experience will be the norm. BUT...most of my friends who are abusers now or wound up in treatment started out REBELLING against their supposed "lack of choice" in the matter. I bet 2 out of 4 would still be in treatment or abusing if they had more freedom, but that is a small number compared to the current realities. Anyone who is opposed to legalized drugs has merely to look at Prohibition and draw the parallels. It isn't a stretch...

To: Mike P. who wrote (23)	6/30/1998 6:55:00 PM
From: HRAKA	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 13062

PJ, <its destructive and wrong> It seems to me that you have assumed a lot. This statement is not as black and white as you think. There are numerous drug users in this society that function just fine and make huge contributions. I bet you know quite a few. The fact is that NO ONE, not you, not me, not the government should have the right to pass laws to protect me from myself. Punish the crap out of me if I bring harm to another but stay the hell out of my bedroom. Hraka