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Pastimes : Chatting With and About God the Father -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Gregory D. John who wrote (262)7/9/1998 1:41:00 AM
From: Jane Hafker  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 638
 
John, very quickly as I just can't repost the whole study here. I am almost reticent to put it here, since I take it from the Untermyers Children's Bible Study book of l939, a most amazing work, I must say. Keeps my rapt attention. If it is not true, someone must blame Mrs. Untermyer, who now probably is dead. Like I said, I haven't had a chance to run this through scripture like a criminal lawyer with evidence.

The early life of Davis we all know. Great guy. Very holy kid. Then he became king. I had just never read it before, and the verses from the Bible should be read to be sure there is no deception or error in this telling of the life of David. First of all the life of David is told by/through Samuel, the prophet. And a lot of it is recorded in the Book of Samuel. That's interesting, but probably only to me. The book of kings starts when David is old and his life has been a rich mess for a long time. But the book of David and God is shown through DAVID's DEALINGS WITH SAMUEL. That's interesting.

There is a lot of talk in current Christianity that the rawkus church behavior and the carnal rock bands and jazz bands and bongos and
other strange things are somehow all laid at David's feet. Whenever these things are questioned, people demand: DO YOU QUESTION DAVID, WHO GOD LOVED, DANCING NAKED BEFORE THE ARK OF THE COVENANT! Then person after person has stared at me with that judgmental look, and usually at that point I just give up the conversation because it is going nowhere. So, DAvid dancing naked before the ark, presumable to a rock band of the time as our understanding of it goes, shows that God is really a rawkus party-er, and the holy crowd is outdated, and basically David dancing naked before the Ark is where it's really at. This has been my stunned and uncomprehending interpretation.

So I start reading this study, verse after verse, I believe. I start in at the time after DAvid is King, and Isreal is the mightiest kingdom in the world. IN THE WORLD all of a sudden. Because of DAvid and his reliance on God. And they had the Ark of the Covenant--the Presence of God--THE HOLY SPIRIT SUBSTITUTE OF THAT ANCIENT TIME.

First of all the Ark was in a place where it was very blessed and the people around it were blessed and prospered. Then David goes to move it with some people and a man touches the Ark and dies on the spot.

The Bible then tells the story like this. David was scared at that, and left the Ark somewhere at a little farm like place and returned to the big city to be king. He was neither good nor bad during this time, but no longer the holy boy who slayed Goliath either. Now he's a very rich handsome king with a million women.

So "word comes to David" that the little priest in the middle of nowhere in the little farm place David decided the Ark should stay "because David was afraid of it" --David hears that man and the surrounding area have been greatly blessed because of the Ark.

NOW David decides to go get the Ark. Comes into town with it and strips not naked, but down to like an indian's breechcloth and dances all the way to the temple "joyously and madly dancing before the Ark" I believe. Dressed the Bible says in a little ephod. Close to that. Not terribly holy, but I mean we are having a good time bringing this Ark back to the main city. Why? Because David was jealous of how much prosperity surrounded it, according to scripture, and this overcame his fear since the sudden death of the guy who touched it. Why this poor guy died for touching the Ark and ttrying to keep it from falling over, I don't know, but I'll bet the reason is there if you look hard enough. Maybe he was just purely sinful behind the doors. Who knows. But David goes to get the Ark "because he heart so-and-so was greatly propering because of the presence of the Ark".

David has many women in his life and one of the main ones comes to him and berates him for "stripping" in public and accuses him of doing so to show off in front of the women watching him. (not really a holy situation either, come to think of it.) Obviously she was very jealous, and felt that David should have kept more clothes on. We do know that David was very easy on the eyes, and this is all quite normal behavior for women or men.

It says that David says harsh things to her, and this woman never bore a child.

Now, that sounds like a curse from God, doesn't it? Except that this was one of David's women, and apparently all the Bible says is that he probably he stayed mad at her for life and didn't sleep with her again, nor did she cheat on David, and this woman never had children. That is a long way from a curse from God and by God because she perceived that David was letting the women of the town get a good look at him. That was what she accused him of. Showing himself off to the women.

I did not read this old interpretation of the scriptures and what the Bible was really saying by laying it side by side with scripture. I felt that the study was the exact recreation of the history of David, and the truths were utterly amazing, and far from anything I had been taught or seen myself. I don't think she was leaving anything out, and if not, it is even more amazing that this has rarely been seen clearly.

Very soon after this, DAvid lusted after Bathseba and his life collapsed around him, except that he was still rich. As the Bible records, David did receive forgiveness for adultery, murder, lust and I'm glad we don't know what else, but that his days were filled "with blood" until he died. Although, as with all wretched sinners, we know that God always forgives us and takes us back.

But even if other things are buried in there, this is an amazing story.
I believe we have all missed almost 98% of the reason it is there.

I just wanted to put it here just in case it would mean anything to anyone. I do not see it as a blanket endorsement of carnal activity in church because "David did". Au contraire. Au contraire. Actually I see so much in this it's hard to believe. I just wonder what others see if they actually read it.

Nor does it take away from David, whom God dearly loved, and visa versa. But I believe it puts David worship in balance. "There is none good but my Father". (Jesus Christ, ad 33)

I will try to lay this interpretation side by side with the scriptures, but this is what I remember and I want to put it out as I said I would. David has been on my mind for a long time, and why David would be on my mind I can't possibly explain other than the fact that there are more lessons in David's life than we have understood.

Anyway, that's the Bible study I have been looking at with great amazement of the fact versus the perception we have been given of it, or I have been given of it. I believe it is a strong lesson in sin destroying slowly, and starting with small breeches in the spiritual
fabric, maybe. Whatever it is, it seems quite profound.



To: Gregory D. John who wrote (262)7/9/1998 8:59:00 AM
From: Steelguy  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 638
 
What a great way to start off a beautiful, sunny day, finding a new ( new to me ) thread devoted to the discussion of our wonderful Father and His Son!!!!!!! Thank you Jane for starting this thread.
Greg,
I am responding to you because I went back for a bit and looked at your posts back in June to get an idea of where people's heads are at ( not that I believe I have people figured out of course :o) ) , and your posts stuck out to me. They did so because I can hear in you a sincere desire to " understand " what Christianity is all about. What a wonderful thing. I can tell you that in my own experience, it is when you question at first that the Holy Spirit is working on you and the power of the Holy Spirit is beyond compare!
Questioning is good however, if you go to the Ask God thread you will see some ( mainly Raymond Morris ) who makes it his passtime to poke holes in the Christian faith. While I tried to speak with him for a couple of days, I realized that it was pointless as my words were truly not being listened to at all. All we can do for people like that is plant the seed, and move on as only, ONLY God can make his faith grow. This concept will become clearer to you as you study the bible more and more and listen to the wisdom in that book.
So where was I? As you and all will find, I can run off at the mouth a little Sorry :o)
Anyway, Greg, keep studying the bible. I would suggest reading/studying Romans as I believe it is probably the greatest letter Paul wrote and such a wonderful guide to understanding Christianity.
For a quick summary from me of what it means to be a Christian I will say this., again, my words and thoughts only.....

This world has so much fear, hate, worry ( lot's of worry ), evil, death etc..etc... and yet here we are. We are blessed with life here on earth. BUT WHY? I have found in my limited understanding of life and the bible that the only time the question " why are we here ?" can be answered is if we look at scripture. You see Greg, as kooky as it may seem, we have been put here with really only ONE purpose........TO GLORIFY GOD. One thing, one thing only. Please, anyone correct me here if I am wrong but this is really all we are supposed to do. But it encompasses so much. How do we glorify God? Follow the commandments. OH OH, here we go guys, the commandments. Now, Greg, here is something really kooky about those commandments. I have never committed adultry in my marriage so therefore I have not broken that commandment right? WRONG, WRONG WRONG!!! God instructs us through His words, Christ's words and Paul's words and others that the commandments are the Law but they are to be taken literally and SPIRITUALLY. The spirit of the Law is such a key issue that is overlooked by established churches in my opinion. The spirit of the law means this.: If I even think, yes , think , or lust over another woman for even a second, I have broken the spirit of the law " thou shalt not commit adultery " and therefore am guilty of sin. OUCH!!! Tough to take eh? Sounds pretty rough but all this really shows is why WE ARE ALL SINNERS and we NEED Christ to bridge the gap between God our father and ourselves. God hates sin and only through Christ are we reconciled with Him.
I used to get so freaked out going to church when I met my wife because everyone would speak a confession of sin together: Most merciful God, we confess that we are by nature, sinful and unclean: ( hey , I am not sinful and unclean, I am a good guy I would think )
we have not loved you with our whole heart, we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves, we justly deserve your present and eternal punishment. For the sake of your Son, Jesus Christ , have mercy on us, forgive and lead us so that we may delight in your will and walk in your ways, to the glory of your holy name. Amen...........What was that I would think. what a downer!!!!! That what I thought religion was and Christianity was, a downer. A bunch of people who needed to feel bad about themselves for some reason.
HOW WRONG I WAS Greg, how wrong I was.
This world can really offer us nothing, nothing except love, LOVE.
So we look to the next world and we see that there awaits us ETERNITY WITH GOD AND JESUS in the greatest paradise ever imagined. And that is what comes with Christ.......HOPE.

**** all: please forgive this horrendously long post., I got going and couldn't stop. :o)

God's blessings to all today.