> There's something personal between T. Kennedy and NBASE
I was going to drop out of this discussion after posting my first 3
notes, but I have to respond to some of things in your posting which
are out-and-out untrue.
No, there isn't anything personal. I'm just a dissatisfied customer
who feels I should report factually on the product when people ask me
about it.
> here's official response from NBASE
Interesting that you were able to get an "official response from
NBASE", given that they never provided one to me.
> After conversing with you on Wed., June 3rd regarding Terry > Kennedy and his
> perceived problems. As I remarked, when we spoke, I have > researched the
> problem, using the e-mail you sent me, and phone conversations > with NBase people
> who have been involved over time.
Is "you" Saul Feinberg, Jr? Are you associated with N Base/MRVC in
some manner that would cause them to provide this information to you?
> The facts, as they have been presented to me are:
> * Mr. Kennedy has asked for and received assistance, support, > and advice from
> Technical Support, Field Management, Engineering, and Software > Engineering both
> via phone and on-site via Tim Smith (Network Engineer).
Mostly true. I have spoken with Stan Ho, John Jones, Mike Pallies,
and Allan Brandt (as I recall) and have had Mike and Tim Smith on-
site to look at the problems I was experiencing.
> * He has been sold equipment below cost, to help him solve > growth problems.
Untrue. I have been sold equipment below cost to solve problems with
the existing equipment which N Base was unable to address. In par-
ticular, N Base claimed that I was "overdriving the switch" by try-
ing to send 6 megabits of traffic across a 100Mbit interface on an
NH215. When Tim came on-site, he agreed that I was not overdriving
the switch and that the 100Mbit ports on the NH215 should be easily
able to handle the traffic, but that for some reason they were not.
When N Base provided a test NH2016 (their suggestion, not mine, by
the way) the problem went away. I offered N Base the choice of fixing
the problem with the NH208/NH215, trading up to some NH2016's on the
switches that were experiencing the most severe problems (and agree-
ing to keep all 5 MH208's we purchased and agreeing to not complain
if those NH208's ever developed the same problem as the 215's), or
for N Base to refund my money on the switches I had ordered most re-
cently. N Base decided to take the second option and exchange the most
troublesome switches for NH2016's. This was their choice.
> * He was warned against ordering NH2016's, as not being high > performance
> enough, he refused to take that advice.
Untrue. Initially (before Tim came on site, and the theory was that
I was overdriving the switch) N Base wanted me to try a chassis-based
switch (at a lot more money). However, N Base selected the NH2016 and
shipped me one on eval even before Tim came on site.
Aside from the security issues and some user interface improvements
the NH2016's have been working quite well here. I have no performance
issues with the NH2016's.
Tim's comment about the NH208/NH215 was "well, that was our first
generation 10/100 switch and the new stuff is a lot better", which
I agree with.
N Base did ask me to take NH2012's instead of NH2016's when we got
down to the actual upgrade, but they stated that they wanted to do
that because they had some used/surplus 2012's around, while the 2016
was a new product and in short supply. My response was that I wanted
the 2016's because I had tested with them and they worked, and with
the 2012 (which I never used) I might have the same problems. Even-
tually N Base agreed and sent 2016's. Remember, since the terms of the
upgrade were set by N Base, they could have always declined.
> * He is now asking for $75K worth of free product just because > his network has
> outgrown his old NH208's.
Untrue. I don't want any free product, and the NH208's were perfor-
ming the same as they had been since they were installed, and I did
not ask for the NH208's to be upgraded. All I wanted was a bug fix for
the problem that made the switch crash every 48/49 days and a fix for
the security hole.
I had a number of NH215's which Tim agreed were not performing at
a reasonable level, and N Base agreed to replace those units (with
the NH2016's that they suggested).
At the time of the trade-in, all I wanted was a fix for the 49-day
crash and a fix for the security problem. I suggested some other user
interface improvements, but those were just suggestions.
At this time, if N Base fixes the security problem I'd be happy to
pay for the NH2016 upgrades. Otherwise, I'd be glad to return the
NH2016's provided I get a refund for the most recent NH215's that I
bought with the understanding that the problems would be fixed. I'm
prepared to write off the rest of the gear (particularly as parts of
it have already been replaced with a Cisco switch).
Perhaps some other customer wants $75K of free product to fix
*their* problems?
> ** We have had Tim Smith, Sr. Engineer, on-site to assist Mr. > Kennedy in the
> design implementation of his network, at no cost to Mr. > Kennedy.
Sort of true. Tim Smith came out to analyze the problems I was
having and agreed with me that they should not be happening. He is
in agreement that a switch with capacity fror 2 100Mbit ports should
not lose packets at a 6Mbit traffic level, less than 10% of one ports
wire speed.
> It seems we can't make him happy. He demands the top of the > line performance at
> low end (workgroup) prices.
Performance on the NH2016 is fine. It's the lack of security on the
switch that's problematic. Performance is acceptable on the NH208's,
but having them crash every 48/49 days and having to unplug them to
reset them is not acceptable.
> * We are about to announce a firmware upgrade that will > disable all of the
> maintenance passwords from the switches. This upgrade will be > posted on our
> website for free downloads.
Until I went public with my security notice, N Base did not respond
to me at all about this, other than my sales rep saying that it had
been discussed "at the highest levels" and the "the company decided
not to address the issue". It is unclear whether this was in the works
before I reported this to N Base. It is also unclear if N Base is
going to notify their existing customers about these security prob-
lems. Time will tell.
> The caveat to the customers is that when (not if) they
> loose their passwords, they will have to send the switch back > to NBase and pay
> $500($200 for MegaCover customers) and we will have to > re-flash the
> switch with the latest firmware. All a user needs to do is > change the telnet password
> in the switch and control access to the front of the switch, > and the problem is
> eliminated.
That would appear to be a competitive disadvantage compared to other
vendors (if indeed it is true that the switch has to be returned to
N Base). For the NH208/215, it would seem that all that needs to be
done for a forgotten password is to use the LDR.EXE upload to upload
an older version of the software that accepts the debug/forgot pass-
words. I don't know if the NH2016 has serial upload, so I don't know
if it will work on that switch.
> I believe this is what Mr. Kennedy is looking for.
Yes - too bad it wasn't started back when I reported it (in April
1998). We could have avoided a lot of problems if N Base admitted
there was a problem and that they were working on a fix.
It will be interesting to see if the NH208/NH215 update still has
the crash-after-48-days bug...
> Finally, in the past month NBase, 3Com, and Cabletron have all > been asked to
> provide modifications to their switching products, as a > solution to the above. Once
> the marketplace identified the need, engineering produced and > tested the change
> and the solution will be available within a few weeks.
As far as I know, the other vendors announced the vulnerability
and provided fixes of their own volition. It's taken a lot of prod-
ding to get N Base to the point of promising to release a fix.
By the way, I offer all the correspondence I've received about N
Base (from both N Base and other users) to back up my statements.
Anyone who is interested can view them at:
spc.edu
N Base is similarly free to post any mail I have sent them. |
