Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Pastimes : Can SI Members Really Manipulate Stocks? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: UDanWright who wrote (15)	7/30/1998 8:43:00 PM
From: Henry Volquardsen	Respond to of 461

Dan, Yes there is a new set of investors operating in the market and they may or may not be more emotionally volatile. Having dealt with professional traders most of my adult life I some time find it hard to believe anyone is more emotionally volatile than professional traders. There is a saying among traders that if you can keep your cool when all those about you are losing theirs, you obviously are not paying attention. Professional traders are pretty skittish as well. BTW I am not saying that there is no such thing as manipulation by shorts. Of course there is. I am just saying that it is my experience that there is more bullish hype than bearish hype as that is the path of less resistance. I also am amused by conspiracy theories. I find it amusing how many people on SI in particular jump so easily to the conclusion that cynics on a particular stock are short selling manipulation. Yet some of the most absurd blue sky hype often goes unchallenged. This is because people want to believe. People want to believe. I live in Greenwich Ct which has been ground zero for the recent powerball mania. I have had a powerful demonstration about people's intense desire to believe. One other thing I have always found amusing is the number of people who believe market makers are manipulating equities at every turn. FWIW I am a market maker in over the counter interest rate and currency derivatives. I have never been involved as a market maker of equities but I know a little bit about how market makers conduct their business. There is a lot of basic ignorance on SI about how market makers operate. Anyway, I am enjoying this discussion and look forward to the discussion on this thread. But I am in London at the moment and it is bed time. Henry

To: UDanWright who wrote (15)	7/30/1998 8:50:00 PM
From: Andrew Vance	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 461

I enjoyed your post. It hits the target. I think your scenario plays out more times than we are all willing to believe. But do not limit it to low end stocks or unscrupulous MMs. How many times does a major brokerage come out with a BUY recommendation which results in a decline in share price?? Could it be they have bought up inventory on the stock to raise prices and then dumped it on the retail brokers to sell to the clientele who were left holding the bag. I have seen more than my share of pump and dumps from all sectors. What is missing is the hidden pump and dump. This is where a consortium of investors buys up a stock over the course of 1-3 weeks in small quantities ($7 trades makes this possible) and establish a nice position. then they feed information to the more gullible websites, newsletters, IR paid newsletters, and online investors for a massive pump and dump. People nibble at the stock and they hold onto their blocks of the low volume traded stock UNTIL more nibble and it looks as if no one is selling. This causes a minor pop which they then sell into. Once they unload, there is no support for the stock, it stagnates, people lose interest, and there are no buyers when they want to sell. Andrew

To: UDanWright who wrote (15)	7/30/1998 8:53:00 PM
From: Filbert	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 461

For the most part, the SI threads provide a pooling of information from the various members that is still somewhat less than the information that the money firms are going to have. While some of the people who post here have more elaborate setups, most everyone here is working of off a PC and the Internet. The combining of individuals provide some ability to gather information more easily, and it is a bit more fun discussing things with others, trying to solve a puzzle that is constantly changing so to speak. The only way I could see SI Members manipulating stocks are on the thinly traded issues and the BB issues, where price swings are more easily affected. The big money players control the playing field on anything that they want to control. I think Patrick Slevin made the point about the MFund fellows. If they have to stay well invested over time, they are going to pick their favorite stocks again and again, the market continues to increase, but if you look at the advance/decline numbers, the market doesn't always seem to strong (to me anyway). I also agree with Henry that manipulation on the positive side is much easier than on the short side. Most people psychologically want to win, shorting is like betting to lose, (and I understand that I bringing emotion into the investing, but I believe most people do. For some, it's like Vegas except you get to hold your money longer). On most of the threads, it seems to me that "longs/bulls" rule and anyone who shows up and persistently asks "negative" questions or posts "negative" comments gets accused of being a short rather quickly, and in some unfortunate situations gets attacked. Sorry for the rambling, interesting thread idea. thanks Filbert