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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JF Quinnelly who wrote (24238)	8/12/1998 9:34:00 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

I have no doubt that matter is inherently corrupt, but I enjoy wallowing in it anyway. I am not, and never will be, a Christian. The whole edifice seems premised on something I don't believe in, namely original sin. When I heard about this in Sunday school it struck me as totally bogus, and I haven't changed my opinion since. I couldn't possibly worship a God who would condemn people to damnation for something they didn't do. Even if you do believe in original sin, the notion that a blood sacrifice would be necessary to expiate it is totally preposterous. God is omnipotent. If God wanted to redeem people, it would require nothing more than the desire to redeem them. Why crucify anybody, least of all your own son? Without original sin, no need for redemption, and the whole drama becomes all too human. I do believe there was a man named Jesus, who preached a message unpopular with the authorities and paid the price, as have many others in history. Beyond that, I really don't care much for the whole package. Too harsh, too judgmental, too exclusive, and too authoritarian. If I have to be something, I'll be a pagan. If Emile is right, well yes, I'm damned. But I'm willing to bet that when Emile finally comes face to face with the creator, assuming there is one, he's going to get a big surprise. Steve

To: JF Quinnelly who wrote (24238)	8/16/1998 11:22:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Freddy, I enjoyed your discussion of Gnosticism, but I think there are some things I do not understand about the whole issue. For example, in my own readings I note that the Gospel of Thomas shows a very Gnostic-sounding Jesus, and yet this gospel may predate the others, and consists totally of quotes from Jesus. I am not sure why many Christians are threatened by this. I also find it important to note that Gnosticism was an early form, or branch, of Christianity. I think most Christians who are not also religious scholars tend to forget that Jesus was born, lived, preached, and died a Jew, and that Christianity sprung up around the storytellers who were struck by his presence and his message. He might be surprised to discover that a whole religion sprouted around him!! The history of Gnosticism is typical, in that there were several different factions fighting for Jesus' legacy for several hundred years, and there was much revisionism of what Jesus may have said and did. The documents discovered at Nag Hammadi, which give us the Gnostic writings, were hidden there in the hope that they would not be discovered and destroyed by revisionist Christians in the fourth century (if my short-term memory serves me correctly). The idea that there is one straight and pure Christian message that has been handed down divinely and congruently for two thousand years is erroneous. The different groups who were intrigued by Jesus and wanted to follow him fought bitterly, many documents were destroyed, and many Gnostics slaughtered by those who were more dominant, violent, and insistent in controlling what has been handed down to us. dragonswing.net webcom.com