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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (24354)	8/17/1998 1:03:00 AM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Michael, internationally AIDS is almost totally a disease of heterosexuals. In America it is rapidly becoming a disease of poor minorities, mostly intraveneous drug addicts. I would definitely agree that the gay bathhouses in San Francisco should have been closed as soon as it was known that they were contributing to the spread of the disease here. On the other hand, the reason that was viewed as so political is that homosexuals were already so discriminated against that they became overly shrill and defensive, and in my opinion, used extremely poor judgment. You also overlook that there was a huge debate on the issue here. Many people, gay and straight, argued that the bathhouses should be closed. This debate was widely covered in our "liberal" newspapers. Of course, if you are going to blame the homosexuals for spreading AIDS, you would logically have to blame all the religious conservatives as well, since study after study has shown that distributing clean needles to drug addicts not only prevents the spread of infection, but often leads the addicts to ask for drug treatment as well. People like Emile seem to believe that whole groups--the Jews for example--should be stamped out or something. I think that once you have beliefs that are so polarized that hate crimes are the result, you lose your own right to believe like that. I also think that rearing wonderful children requires teaching tolerance for people who are a different color, have a different sexual identity, or hold different beliefs. So it is impossible for me to imagine that their children are wonderful if they are taught to hate. In San Francisco, the Salvation Army has recently bowed out of local charitable activities because of our local laws that all employers must offer health insurance to the domestic partners (gay or straight) of their employees. In this case, the desire to discriminate against homosexuals has won out over their urge to do charitable acts. Is that really very charitable? I don't think so. It is late and I don't have time to mull over which charities are non-Christian, although I bet there are quite a few. I would have to add, however, that many of the environmentalist and animal rights organizations are not particulary Christian in their origin or orientation, and I think most of them do wonderful works of pure love and compassion.

To: greenspirit who wrote (24354)	8/17/1998 2:02:00 AM
From: Krowbar	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

<< I don't blame you for ignoring my question to name a national charitable organization for the homeless or hungry started by Wicca's or Atheists. I don't doubt some exist but I'll bet you would be hard pressed to find them. >> Most Atheists that I know are independent people who shy away from joining organizations. The membership, and budget for the only remaining National organization that I am aware of (Freedom from Religion Foundation) is low. After administrative and legal costs, there is little money left. It is hardly surprising that there is a surplus to start a charitable organization. I imagine that there are Atheists in many secular organizations such as the Lions, don't you? By the way, I once took a large load of good clothing to our local secular charitable organization. When asked what church I belonged to, I replied that I didn't, and that I would like to see her write Atheist next to my name. She refused, and her warm thank you and smile from a few moments before disappeared. I wonder if that has happened before in this country. I think so. Del