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Microcap & Penny Stocks : Amazon Natural (AZNT) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Don Pueblo who wrote (1000)	8/23/1998 1:44:00 PM
From: Cavalry	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 26163

vTo: bmart (991 ) From: Tastes Like Chicken Sunday, Aug 23 1998 1:39PM ET Reply # of 1004 I still want to know how you illegally short a stock. and i still want to know what kasha pm'd you to get you to lay down chicken

To: Don Pueblo who wrote (1000)	8/23/1998 1:48:00 PM
From: Cavalry	Respond to of 26163

same way an airline overbooks a flight, they figure everyone won't show up for flight, and shorting mm's hope people will get bored and sell before it is time to pay up, when they all show up for overbooked flight airlines start offering free tickets to those who give up their seats, well aznt is forcing the overbooked mm's to deliver all the tickets which they can't, read first 20 posts on this thread and then we can talk, ok cav

To: Don Pueblo who wrote (1000)	8/23/1998 3:01:00 PM
From: Jim B	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 26163

short selling info to the chicken and those who are in the soup along with him... In all your wisdom and those that you work with you really don't have a clue do you??? well, please take the time to goto school and learn to read... then come back and read this post in its entirety.. this posting is not mine... author to me is unknown.. but with you and your partners' good DD.. you could probably find where it came from.. am I any more confident today that AZNT is a good investment.. nope... still quite a few things to be answered... so I remain neutral to this point... but do hold a position in this stock as of friday afternoon.. but the point of this post is to answer something that you very well know goes on... you just figured that anyone coming on here would discount the idea of short selling and undeclared positions.. and strangely... as easy as it is.. no one chose to answer your rhetorical question... so here it is.. -------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Undeclared Short Selling Introduction Many dynamic growth companies have been damaged by undeclared short selling. This practice consists of creating stock that doesn't exist or borrowed (as is the legal requirement) and subsequently sold in large amounts in the open market creating panic selling and decimating share prices, where they hope to buy the position back at lower levels (creating a profit for the short seller). Declared Short Sellers Declared (legal) short sellers are institutional money managers and fringe group market professionals, not small capital public investors. Their positions are reported publicly on a regular basis, and these individuals must borrow the shares before taking on a short position. They must also typically deposit 50% of the value of the short as a margin deposit. From whom do they borrow? Read the fine print on your margin account agreements and you will see it is YOU! This is a perfectly acceptable, legal and ethical investment strategy - just like in commodities you have some folks betting on higher prices, others betting on lower prices in a controlled, disclosed, and regulated environment. Undeclared Short Sellers Undeclared short sellers don't borrow the stock they are selling. They (in most cases) don't even have to pay the margin requirements for their position. They are betting on (and trying to create) total failure of the public company. The odds of failure in small business are better than 98 to 2. There are many ways a public company can confirm an undeclared short position in their stock. One way is to use the response to the company's annual general meeting. The company can add the issued stock (IS) and the short interest (SI). The sum is the stock available in the company's market. Now add the known shareholder positions (KS) and the street stock proxies (SP) If the (KS+SP) sum is greater than the (IS+SI) sum, you have an undeclared position in your stock. Most street stock owners (held in street name at a brokerage firm) don't even submit proxies. You can estimate the size of the undeclared short position by multiplying the stock proxies by 1000. This assumes 10% of the street owners submitted proxies (an estimate, by the way, which is unusually high). When public companies do this comparison they often learn they have 3-7 million shares short and undeclared. The limiting of access to undeclared short selling was supposed to be the Equity Reform Movement but it hasn't limited the practice. It excludes most retail brokers, newsletter editors, money managers and anyone on the fringes of the internal working of the market. Undeclared short selling networks include a few powerful market insiders, a couple of politicians, and a few financial powerhouses. Their motto: "You can never sell too much stock." It is estimated these individuals gross over a billion dollars annually, making it a very big business. How Can Undeclared Short Sellers Create Nonexistent Shares? The trading system is responsible for some of it but most nonexistent stock comes from offshore tax havens. It is impossible to trace the beneficial owner. The nonexistent stock trades several times and comes to rest within the control of the undeclared short selling group. Undeclared short sellers have enough power to force the company to issue more stock, if necessary. It works because the trading system lacks closure. The monthly brokerage house account statements aren't tied to specific shares issued by the public company. The client account statement is a "claim" of sorts on shares. It does not represent actual ownership of share certificates. You end up with an open-ended option on the stock you buy - and no actual ownership. Nine times out of ten your brokerage firm loans your shares to the shorts (short sellers) on settlement day!! So, What Do I Do Now?? (Complaints to regulatory agencies) Though it sounds good in theory, complaints to the so called "experts" who regulate our financial markets have proven to be completely useless. The problem is simple: Lack of knowledge on the part of the regulator. You would be hard pressed to find anyone versed on undeclared shorting with the SEC itself let alone the NASD (who oversees NASDAQ and the Bulletin board) who are "association police" with no real legal power and virtually no transactional knowledge. A complaint to the NASD would probably result in them attacking the public company and the legitimate brokers who bought the shares for their client -- they would attack the victim rather than the culprit. A Short Trap The term "short trap" refers to backing the shorts into a position whereby they must cover (buy back the short position in the open market). The only effective way is to demand delivery of all of the shares currently held in street name. This must be done by the shareholder. The problem is that most brokers are brainwashed to believe that if the shares are not on account at their brokerage firm they are gone forever and the commissions generated selling the shares will go to somebody else. One possible solution is a large buyer (sometimes as much as 10% of the float) who will demand delivery of his shares. The Good News (Is there any?) The good news is that is the trap is effectively enacted the short will HAVE to cover the position. This can, in some cases, take a $.50 stock to $15 or $20 a share - creating huge liquidity for the company and make the shareholders rich. (20-1 returns are not uncommon) Some of the most successful stocks on Wall Street are a result of an effect short trap. Example: Presstek (PRST) -- this was a $20 stock that made shareholders a five banger when a major promoter brought in some large players to bust the short. The Only Real Protection The only real protection: education of investors! Demand delivery of all shares you buy!!!! ----------------- so the writer of this exerpt truly believes best thing to do is to call your certs and also that short selling does in fact damage a stock... was he expressly talking about this in context to BB stocks.. don't know.. but probably same rules apply... but I will say that many people don't like calling certs on BB stocks because they rise/fall too quickly and people want to be able to trade them without interruption... so do what's best for you based on your timelines.. and goals.. jim

To: Don Pueblo who wrote (1000)	8/23/1998 3:22:00 PM
From: bmart	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 26163

Mr. Chicken, I thought I had responded to you earlier, but I will try again. Legality' only is a question when the short was undeclared or naked. MM's supposedly have the freedom to keep a market liquid. The problem in the AZNT market is that illegally obtained shares were sold into the float. Those that sold the illegally obtained shares, like Mr. Zapara who has 3 accounts frozen with the remainder of his shares, have shorted, or used their stock for others to short AZNT. This is how AZNT can arrive at the number 2.2MM as the short position in AZNT. WE know Mr. Charlies 480K are sitting in the bank as colateral. We also know who shorted against his shares. The interim TA is passing the torch to the new TA and here is where we will see if this short revisits the scene of past crimes, if he does, there will be an ambush on Mr. Shorty like you have never seen before. Because Mr. Shorty's short position is naked, Mr. Charlie's shares are busy at the moment, if he doesn't cover he will be commiting a felony. The last I heard, that was illegal. RB