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To: The Phoenix who wrote (60904)	8/25/1998 6:59:00 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 176387

Gary, OK heres an article about Snap-on-Tools problems with Baan. Its the only article I have offhand. You get the idea. Problems like this are rampant. In order to do the Dell thing, you cannot fall into this pit. IMO, Sun has fallen into this pit. This company didnt go belly-up, but someone else did and is sueing anderson consulting because of it - check the psft thread for that one, also Schlege lock in the bay area claimed to be considering a financial reorganization due to their problems with ERP. Rich Secor, Snap-on spokesman said "There were times when we would place an order and the system would say the product wasn't there when, in fact, it was. It took us a while to realize that some of the sales problems we were having were a result of the new system." Message 5221546 Im not disputing your claims btw, Im just trying to get to the gist of your problems. Good to know you know networking - I need some help there. MH

To: The Phoenix who wrote (60904)	8/25/1998 7:15:00 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor	Respond to of 176387

Heres another company, this one did go out of business, that tried to do Sap: Message 5122582 MH

To: The Phoenix who wrote (60904)	8/25/1998 8:03:00 PM
From: divvie	Respond to of 176387

The success of SAP: Now obviously Michelle is far more knowledgable than I on this, but there are companies that have successfully implemented SAP and swear by it. However, to do so typically takes at least 2 years and millions of dollars. Ask any SAP consultant that knows ABAP4 and you'll balk at the rates that they charge. The result can be real-time order and GL information around the world in a global installation. However, the trouble with SAP is that your company has to change drastically to fit in with it. There are a wealth of user definable parameters (partly the reason for extended set up time) but it is generally the SAP way or nothing. Because of these long implementation times SAP introduced ASAP, whereby software was pre-configured on Unix, NT, Mainframe and AS/400 servers (I think I got them all) to get the most common fit of a particular business. I do not know how successful this has been. My point is that a lot of companies think that to stay competitive, they need to implement something like SAP. It costs so much but they have to so it, then they find all sorts of problems - the computer press is full of SAP implementation horror stories. My fear, when I read that DELL had scrapped a SAP implementation, was that they would then fall behind the curve, but they stated that it did not fit in with their way of manufacturing (that rigid SAP way of doing things) and Michelle has explained the systems that they do use. ERP systems are much more complex than you imply when you use the term "server based management system". You're not involved in networking and NT in your career are you? Not a facetious question BTW. Just curious. BTW SAP is the ticker now that they are traded as ADRs.