Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Pastimes : Don't Ask Rambi -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JF Quinnelly who wrote (12158)	8/26/1998 8:38:00 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 71178

<<I don't know how the fact that Ho took Patti around with him "discredits" Patti. It's simply what happened.>> It might be more accurate to say that Patti chose to appear with Ho in public on a number of occasions, as he did with leaders of other factions. As the head of the closest thing to a functioning government in Hanoi, Ho naturally got some attention. Patti was not Ho's disciple. <<to give the people of Hanoi the impression that America supported him.>> The troops that Ho marched into Hanoi were American armed and trained, and accompanied part of the way by American advisors. There is no question that Ho used Patti. Patti also used Ho. The priorities of the time controlling the Japanese forces, rescuing Allied POW's, and maintaining public order, not preventing the spread of communism. In Vietnam, as in other areas (the eastern front against the Nazis comes to mind), Americans frequently reached mutually beneficial accommodations with absolute communists. They were not necessarily communists or sympathizers themselves. From there, we're not in the same argument. Nobody ever said Ho Chi Minh wasn't a communist, or that he was or would have turned into the tooth fairy if America helped him. The pitch Patti and other Americans on the spot made for working with Ho was along the following lines: 1. The French are doomed. All colonialism in Asia is doomed. The Japanese have totally shattered the myth of white supremacy, and Asians are not going to take it any more. The colonists will sink, and the last place we want to be is in their boat. 2. If the French come back, the communists will kick their butts. Ho will take the credit, and nobody will be able to challenge him for national leadership. 3. If America keeps the French out, the credit goes not to Ho, but to America. A little judicious aid here and there, some care to be as little like the French as possible, and friends on the inside can be made. Ho will be just another politician, and the Communists just another party. The point Patti was making is the Ho had to deal. He was not strong enough to repel a French return, he'd have to retreat to the mountains and go guerilla. His old pals in Moscow were flat on their faces, and I'm willing to bet he hated them secretly anyway (I have yet to meet an Asian communist who doesn't have a passionate personal dislike for Russians). The Americans were on the spot. The Vietnamese who took over in 1975 were as communist as anyone who has ever walked the face of the earth. Look where they are now. I'd guess that in 10 years they'll be communists only in name, and in another 10 they'll drop the name. I think that process could have started in 1945 instead of 1975. If it had, the sum total of human pain in recent years could have been much reduced. I think the American support for returning colonialism in the postwar years gave the US a black eye from which it has yet to recover internationally. I think we should have leaped to the defense of all those little socialists - I mean, we were a colony once too, no? We set the Philippines free on schedule (well, sort of), we're the ones who chased out the bad guys when the Brits and the Frogs turned and ran, right? Well, after a little cash flow and some friendly exchanges, the communist leaders either give it up or fall by the wayside. Uncle Ivan is FAR away, and has very little candy to give. Besides, his manners are even worse than those of the American (quite an accomplishment in Asian eyes), his tractors (in the unlikely event that he has any) are no damned good, and he stinks. If we'd taken such a tack, I doubt we'd have half the problems with terrorism that we do, and Russian influence would never have spread to the former colonies. This isn't hindsight, either. Lots of people at the time were suggesting exactly this course, FDR among them. From FDR's published writings it is clear that he intended to stand up to deGaulle over Indochina, and I've often suspected that if he'd lived another year, the Vietnam war might not have happened. I'm getting immoderately long with these, and I'm seriously tempted to give you the last word next time around... Steve