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Pastimes : And The 7th Angel Sounded -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (453)	8/31/1998 10:10:00 PM
From: Stan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 609

Bob, Yes, that's an interesting conjecture and worthy of consideration. Here's my attempt at it: Do angels act independently of, or in conjunction with, the church when it comes to matters of the Earth? Are they the restrainers? I think they enforce spiritual power but are not the responsible agents of restraint. The following illustrates why I think so: We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world and wicked spirits in the heavenlies." (Eph 6) It is we who wrestle these forces. (To repeat this and extend) "Ye are the salt of the earth; and: ye are the light of the world. (Matt 5: 13, 14) The church, not angels, preserve and enlighten the world. When we are gone, the world decays and darkens. This characterizes the tribulation era exactly. "I command thee, in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her (Acts 16:18) It is we who act in this particular capacity, not angels. "There are more that be with us than those that be with them. (2 Kings 6: 16,17) Angels are "with" them, but Elisha acted against the Syrians. " I would that you would pray for all men, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all honesty and godliness. (1 Tim. 2:1-3) It is our prayer that affects the state of life on Earth. That prayer is to secure a quiet and peaceable life in all honesty and godliness. This is the same effect as restraint, therefore I believe it is restraint. " The gates of hell shall not prevail against it (the church).(Matt 16:18) It is against the church that the gates of hell "prevail not" not angels. Bob, you state that "Paul would have said, "we that now restrain" instead of "he that now restrains." IMO, using the "we" compounds a notion that Paul is refuting earlier in the same chapter (2 Thess. 2): namely, that the day of the Lord had arrived. Using the "we" would easily lead the Christians at Thessolanica to assume that it would happen in their lifetime. "Until we be taken," you could hear them all saying. "Wow, we're the ones, praise God." He has to use "he" -- referring to Christians of a later time -- because the current "we" Christians won't be removed. However, they as individuals are part of the "entity"-- the body of Christ -- that does the restraining. Bob, please understand that I am not insisting on absolute doctrine in all this. It's just that these views answer more questions than they raise for me. That's my rule when seeking understanding of the more arcane matters of faith. As far as angels are concerned, I believe that they enforce spiritual "leverage" on the kingdom of darkness according to the will of God, in answer to the Church's prayers, and in this capacity assist in restraining them. They (angels) are all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for them (not instead of them) who shall be heirs of salvation. (Heb. 1:14) These are issues that are corollary to salvation not integral to it, although all understanding of our faith is helpful to our ongoing race; so I welcome the discussion. Thanks for your indulgence and I welcome your response. Stan