I have never tried to convert anyone, but we all have the right to discuss with anyone whatever we wish. Just as you have the right to walk away and ignore the conversation. Attempting to limit what is and isnt acceptable in terms of starting conversations is tricky at best. If someones prosletyzing bothers you, I would suggest walking away.
Specifically, I never addressed my thoughts to you.... unless you do the preaching, if you do not, then fine by me.
As for "limiting conversations".... if they were only conversations, I could not care less, you can "converse" to your heart's content on the subject you wish, however, what some zealots around here and cronies are doing is not mere "conversations"..... Further:
As to proselytizing, (i.e.: "make converts"), I should "walk away"....? Nope, I do not think so.
I can not ignore that, as you suggest, since for example:
The clear intent by the religious right, (i.e.: The Christian Coalition and cohorts, John Whitehead from the Rutherford Institute, et all), to impose their beliefs upon the Public Education system of this country.
As it is the so call Public Education is already deficient as it is today, I do not need, (because it will affect me directly), the zealots imposing on the children of this country their stupid ideas, and NARROW frame of mind.
The football stadium size cults of "converts" and "christians" who believe women are here to be their servants and in essence. "second class citizens"
In other words, the creation of "zombitrons", unfortunately that affects my interests, therefore I do not would like to live amongst mindless imbeciles, so yes I will object to it.
SO NO I CAN NOT SIMPLY "IGNORE IT AND WALK AWAY"
It is simply against the law.....further, it is immoral in my view, that these people are attempting to impose their way, and only their way upon an entire nation. (and more).
And that does not include the rabid maniacs around SI that pretend to "revise" history and pretend that the holocaust is an exaggeration of some "media conspiracy" ????
Please, please, please... What do you take me for ???
The further I analyze you responses, the more irrational they are becoming....
The statement that it is brainwashing is only your opinion. I personally dont follow any organized religion, but I think it is necessary to be tolerant of others beliefs. I also think that there is great beauty in most of the major religions, despite the fact that I disagree with most of the ritual involved.
No it is not ONLY MY OPINION.... I have suffered from it, the immediate reaction to free thought is the attempt to impose "guilt on those who think differently, then "fear of god".
I have experienced it personally, and I have seen the attempts on the public schools, how their faithful Apostles attempt to very subtlety, attempt to impart their religious indoctrination....
So again counselor, WRONG NUMBER, IT IS NOT ONLY MY OPINION, IT IS A FACT.
As to be tolerant... I am tolerant, I can accept Christian ways of belief, Jewish, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic, Buddhist, and so on, and so on.... Even I have learned to accept the fact that there are gay and lesbians, while I do not agree with their life style, I have to respect them as human beings......They may in fact very productive and reasonable individuals, their personal choices are exactly that PERSONAL. (which also means private).
The key here is..... (and this is regardless from who it comes from),
Are you attempting to impose YOUR specific life-style, way of thinking, religion etc. etc., then no I will not respect you and I will defend my interest. period, such action does not mean I am the intolerant one.
Now let me ask you of the above groups, and using historical references and current policies, who is the least tolerant ??
As to beauty in religions.... please do not make me laugh.
Where is the beauty in limiting free thought, imposing guilt and fear in the innocent minds of children..... Give me a break.
Like I said, you want to believe in whatever is it that you want to believe that is fine by me, but do not insult me by pretending that there are certain facts that exist about religions, and I should "ignore" them under the banner of "tolerance"...
Imparting fear and guilt, no, I do not consider such as mere ritual.
If someone was truly an independent thinker, there independence would not be impaired by anyones dogma. I know many religous and spiritual people who are fiercly independent thinkers.
There you are with you "spin" theory. first yes I am an independent thinker, I do not NEED religion to guide me, and no the fact that there exists other manners of thinking does not bother me, you and others are free to do what you want, read it again:
You and others can do what you want.
Once again, what bothers me, is the imposition of their way of thinking upon others, many unwilling listeners, and in other instances, indoctrination upon children, in addition, the original debate started with the fact that the specific agenda of a few individuals here are down right Nazi-fascism.
Now excuse me, but a "religious free thinker" is an oxymoron.
As for a "spiritual- free thinker", I would have to know more the specific philosophy of the so call "spiritual free thinker", therefore I can not express an opinion on that as I do not know all the facts.
Besides, I do not believe you should be so concern about what I think, I do not believe it should bother you, you are welcome to ignore me.
I am running out of time, and would be happy to discuss the reswt of the list with you tomorrow if you so desire.
Look.... Arguing about who thinks what is indeed silly, you think your way, I think mine, I am not here to convince you, nor I hope you are doing so either.
Therefore, the key to all this is, that while I can respect you or anyone to believe anything they want, I will not accept the fact that if someone attempts to indoctrinate others, I should remain quiet, nor defense myself and my interest against such action.
Further, when someone expresses their opinion about the fact that I do not believe in "x" thing, then that someone has crossed the line I have the right to express what I think about such opinion, and the rest behind it.
So do not lose sleep over the damned thing, if you are not indoctrinating anybody, and you feel comfortable with your ideas, well then more power to you, and go and discuss all you want with those that believe as you do, you can safely ignore me.
You know, some of your comments make you suspect, it feels as though you are telling me: "look we know we are not going to convince you, so we will not attempt this on you, but please do not bother us in our mission to "convert" the rest of humanity..... Meanwhile I will discuss this to death to see if I can convince you......"
Sorry but no cigar. You can accuse me of paranoia, but that's o.k. I like to hedge on the side of safety..... and in favor of FREEDOM FROM RELIGION.
Remember, (one more time so you do not misconstrue my comments):
You can believe in whatever you want, you can go to your religious clubs where everyone willingly think in the same way.
All that is fine by me. I do not care.
But.... start with the preaching, then I have the right to express what I think about your preachings, your religion etc. Why ?... because you are infringing upon my rights. Directly and indirectly.
And yes, if it reaches the point of imbecility, then I will ignore you as well. As I do not enjoy parroting with white washed walls, it is boring and unproductive.
Z. |
