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To: ToySoldier who wrote (3833)	9/15/1998 7:42:00 PM
From: treetopflier	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 8218

ToySoldier, Exactly my feelings about Java as well. Question tho. Why do they need a network OS if they are adding central site services, e.g. Java based Lotus apps? They are moving to a common chip set on all their platforms and they have plenty of competent operating systems with VMs there. What would Novell really add to that picture that makes them stronger than they are today? They already have network enabled file servers. If they copy Oracle's iFS concept they will kill MSFT whether they have NOVL or not. All you'd need at the desktop is an internet enabled device at the desktop. You don't need a LAN file service. ttf

To: ToySoldier who wrote (3833)	9/17/1998 11:08:00 AM
From: David Harker	Respond to of 8218

ToySoldier, I disagree with the following: >My only response to your idea of IBM buying out the Java language >and its full rights is that if IBM ever were to do that >(and I seriously do not think that is close to being in their >heads) the main benefit to Java would be lost. The reason that Java >is is becoming one of the most potentially properties in the >industry is because it is open. I've been programming in Java as an IBM employee for over two years now, see my profile for link to the IBM web page about my project. I have never heard any mention in IBM of IBM buying Java, but then, as a lowly software engineer, I wouldn't be asked my opinion on that anyway... However, if IBM bought Java from Sun, it would be no less "open" than it is today. Sun makes most of their money from hardware, but also writes and sells software as well, operating systems and applications. IBM has the same profile. Today's IBM is a stronger Java advocate than Sun is, if judged by the number of employees working on Java-related stuff at each company. For example, and I quote (from news.com "To date, IBM is the only company to have released a Windows 3.1 JVM, but it is aimed at developers and not consumers." So, with IBM already writing JVM's for Microsoft platforms, you claim that if IBM owned Java, it wouldn't be open? In my project (the world's largest Java application - working with several hundred other software companies around the world), our first platform was Microsoft (Win95/NT), only later followed by Solaris, AIX, Reliant UNIX, AS/400, etc. (see link in my profile). IBM has bet the farm on Java, and I'm glad they did. Java will still continue to be open if IBM were to buy it, but again, I've never heard that mentioned, and would be very surprised if that happened. We work well w/ Sun now, there are no "control" issues that I'm aware of. Again, I'm just a programmer, speaking as an individual here, not as an IBM spokesperson...

To: ToySoldier who wrote (3833)	9/17/1998 1:09:00 PM
From: Arrow Hd.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 8218

ToySoldier, you and TTF had some great points and an excellent dialogue. Maybe I should throw out some more controversial ideas! I tend to agree with post #3850 (David's reply to you) regarding the point that if IBM owned Java that it would stay open though it would not have the same "atmoshperics" as it does today. Anyway, I really dont think IBM has given any thought to buying Sun or the Java piece. As for Novell, I have owned it in the past (trade only, never in love) and I believe they could be a take-over target. From what I have read it appears they may have slowed the bleed and maybe it is turning around. You and TTF have covered many good points which disclose some of the ways Wintel will be bracketed and the monopoly eventually broken or at least lessened. Thanks for the effort.