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Pastimes : Religion on SI -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (1076)	9/16/1998 4:29:00 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1542

Hey Steve, I'll make a stab at this one. We Muslims do believe in Jesus in a sense. We love him and have no choice in the matter as Muslims. So, it amazes me that when I talk to Christians, they never get off of their defensive platform. We believe he is a messenger of God and that those of his followers chosen to receive his message are bound to follow it as their path to heaven. We have scripture in the Quran on Jesus and on Mary. We believe in the authenticated scripture on Jesus and are bound to it. If you took all of the information written about Jesus by some very enthusiastic followers out of the new testament and just included the information directly attributed to what Jesus did and reported that God had instructed him to say, you would have something close to the scriptures in the Quran. So, yes this is the path to salvation. But, you Christians add so much on top, we have to pull up the reigns and say, no way. I was told by a priest in the sixties that I couldn't go into the church where my sister was being married because I had jeans on. If the priesthood is what it is proclaimed to be it would be infallibly protected by God. I wont go in to that any further. Yuk. We believe that you have a purpose in life and that you are directly in contact with God and subject to his Mercy in Judgement. And, He is the most merciful. There are many apparent contradictions within your book. I don't proclaim to be a scholar on either book, and I know that the Bible scholars have a party on that statement. That is why there are over 70 authorized versions of the Bible. For example, the John 3:16 requirement that mainstream Christianity uses as a test of fellowship. Your book says that when Jesus prayed he said, "Thy will, not mine, be done." The Lords prayer instructs us to pray to our Father which art in heaven. We are instructed in all scriptures of the messengers to describe God as limitless. You know, all powerful, all knowing, etc. Jesus was created, the Jesus we know is a man who described himself as having the same limits as we do. Common sense brother, these things are contradictory. This is the temporal world, Jesus was created as a temporal being. It is heresy for a human being to put themselves as equal to God. There is no God but God. I have never read anything in which Jesus in his own words made such a statement. When he was challenged by the Scribes and Pharesies to profess his uniqueness as the only begotten son of God, he said, "are we not all the children of our father who art in heaven." This was his big opportunity to stand on the truth of this statement or deny it. Keep in mind that it was common at that time in history to proclaim someone a child of God when they were perceived as having done something good. Jesus made these statements. And others, to creepy people that they were the children of the devil. Of course, of all the people of the time who qualified to be called good, Jesus was without sin and God's messenger, so he qualified above everyone else. So, Johns statement could have been translated to mean the only one qualified for the title. You're contained by this egg you call Christian doctrine. I hope the doctrine of your fathers is not more important to you that the truth. You are not bound by anything but your instinctual knowledge that you are here to worship God. Just crack the shell a little and peak out. You are ready to grow from a chick to full maturity. We love Jesus, we worship God, we welcome you in this same brotherhood. You know who your God is and you know that he has proclaimed that you must worship none other but him. It's not complicated, but it is impossible without guidance, faith, the practice of following his commandments of righteousness, and resisting evil temptations. This was contained in Jesus message. Many Christians would like to wash out his entire message, to stand on John 3:16. What you are calling scriptures includes a lot of statements made from one follower to another in letters. This continues up until today. I can't look at my TV without hearing an evangelist report what God told him last night. If these statements could be authenticated, I'd say fine. But they can't and are often found to be complete fabrications. So, it is not the word of God. Gods messengers have always come with proof of their authenticity. They have always been tested and proven to be clean. They have never contradicted themselves (although followers often do) or God. God does not contradict God, God does not change his mind. Gods word does not contradict itself nor is it subject to change by human beings. The Quran is the only book in history that was given this protection. This would have been a perfect test of its authenticity. God promised it wouldn't change or be changed until judgement day. The Quran is considered to be the miracle that authenticates Mohammad as a messenger. It is perfect and reads very differently than the words of Mohammad when he was advising Muslims on their behavior. Why, because it wasn't composed by Mohammad. It was composed by God. The story of Jesus' immaculate conception is much more believable as presented by the Quran. Mary didn't have sex with God or his holy ghost. God forgive me for even repeating that idea. God simply wills something and it is. God can't be punished, tortured, made to weep etc., or he is not all powerful. These are human qualities, Jesus possessed them. Jesus was limited by his humanity, God is not.

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (1076)	9/17/1998 5:25:00 PM
From: Raymond James Norris	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1542

, which is an easier path to be saved, the one you lay out or by accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior? Well obviously if all that is required to reach paradise is to believe Jesus (Pbuh) was your Lord and savior, then it would be the "easier path" or the easier way. Our religion demands more from us. To be "saved," implies you've been damned. As I stated, we don't believe that everyone is born with sin but that everyone is born without sin. Peace be unto You, Norris