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Pastimes : Religion on SI -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (1078)	9/16/1998 5:06:00 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1542

As I read the message of Jesus in the new testament (apart from what his followers wrote and in consideration of translation confusion, as well as out and out changes that I believe to have occurred) I find the same message I find in the Quran. Thomas Jefferson made an attempt to clear this up for us. When Muslims read Jefferson's version of things, they are amazed at how close to a Muslim he was. I believe the path to salvation presented by Jesus is the same path presented by other messengers of God. I don't believe I am supposed to confess, pray, repent, ask for forgiveness of my sins etc. to Jesus. Nor do I believe he ever called for it. I do believe that he presented himself as the way to heaven. That is, he was and is an example for anyone who would follow. His way is the way. That does not contradict what any other messenger said. Mohammad's example in life is presented for all to see and follow. The work done to record and authenticate his example is enormous. The work done to record the living example of Jesus is very limited and I'm not sure if any of it can be authenticated. I do believe that the book of Jesus does not remain as he presented it. I do believe that over zealous followers tried to put another one in its place and changed the purity of his message and made many exaggerations in the process. I do believe I need to do all of my praying and repenting directly to God. By the way, Allah is the Arabic word meaning The One God. This word was in existence before Mohammad.

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (1078)	9/16/1998 5:50:00 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1542

Whoops, sorry I always feel like an explanation is in order. Purely and simply, no. Your contention excludes and restricts the power of God. God is all powerful and there is No God but God. God doesn't have wants or needs or he wouldn't be All powerful. We could all perish in sin and it wouldn't create even a hesitation for God. Of course, we know that is not his will. His will be done. He doesn't need a partner in Jesus. We need messengers and examples and so he provides them, and yes this is our salvation. God is one, not two or three. In making such distinctions you begin to define limits for God and to make associations with him. It is forbidden. I know that you get some sort of reward in your church if you can get people to stand on your simple statements out of a doctrinal tract. Muslims have something similar, it is called AlShahada. I keep hearing 15 people converted to Islam this week and 20 the week before. When I go to the Mosque 'sic' I see only one or two American faces, the same ones I've seen for years. So, I have my doubts about this kind of stuff. It seems a little shallow, unless you're just trying to clarify which camp to put folks in for political reasons. Although I consider the declaration of faith to be essential, I believe the commitment to live according to its precepts must be absolutely understood and intended in the process. I've witnessed Campus Crusaders declaring that you can claim John 3:16 this morning and go to the drunken orgy this evening because you've reserved a seat next to Jesus in heaven no matter what happens. What nonsense. There is a purpose in living and it is worshipping God and living according to his directives and it isn't erased by a simple insincere statement.

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (1078)	9/16/1998 6:48:00 PM
From: Marshall W.	Respond to of 1542

Dear Steve Et Al: I am posting an interesting activity. Sorry that this is so long, no time to edit the following E received today, although I did move certain lines into together. In Christian love and appreciation, Marshall W ******************************************************************** THE E AS RECEIVED by Marshall W. Hello everyone! This voting plea was forwarded to me this morning. To some it might be silly, but as we approach the closing of this century wouldn't it be great if the "Man of the Century" award was won by Jesus Christ. Please take time to vote! In the service of our Lord Jesus Christ, Pastor Rob rob@inreach.com Dear Friends in Christ I thought you might be interested in this. I voted & Jesus is still leading in the following pole. Please read the message & vote. Dear Friends in Christ, Time Magazine is allowing us (hard to believe we can still have a say in anything anymore;-) to vote for Time Magazine's Person of the Century, which will be in their December 1999 issue. The reason I am bringing this up is because it is so very close to my heart. When I think of any one person who has influenced this world in more ways than anyone else I think of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Many of our friends, relatives and neighbors have forgotten the fundamental basis of our country, and attempt to take God out of everything so as to be politically correct. The danger here is that when we take God out, Satan comes in. Case in point-- Adolf Hitler. Here was a man who took God out of the fundamental core of his country, twisted and manipulated the world and brutally murdered untold numbers of God-fearing people. Right now, as I type this, Time magazine's poll for "Person of the Century" has our Lord Jesus Christ leading; followed in 2nd place by Adolf Hitler. I propose that we take up the gauntlet and vote for Christ. Each of us knows at least 1 person with email. CONTACT THEM. Pass this on to everyone you know. Let's start a wave of votes for Jesus Christ--Person of the Century, and let everyone else see our faith. You can vote as many times as you want, and I suspect that Hitler's supporters are jamming the votes that way. What I propose is that we, as Believers, do this honestly. We don't need to cheat or lie to prove who is Number 1. To be heard, to claim that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Person of your Life, VOTE! A HREF="3D">Personofthe Century Poll</A> or Go to: pathfinder.com When you get to the site you must write Jesus Christ in exactly this way. Upper case J, Upper case C and all the rest lower case. (edited=Jesus Christ) Apparently the poll is case sensitive and writing it any other way does not allow your vote to be counted as Jesus Christ. Remember to PASS THIS ON to everyone you care about. Thanks, George ******* END FORWARDED MESSAGE ******* In Jesus Love Kevin J. Keenon E-Mail: kjkeenon@the-scribe.com or the-scribe@cyberservices.com This e-mail has been sent to you from the Coram Deo e-mail list. If you would like to be removed from our e-mail list please send a message with remove in subject to kjkeenon@the-scribe.com All e-mail addresses have been compiled from e-mail sent either to Coram or Kevin Keenon. ******************************************************************* Marshall W. back again My slow 386 and 14-16 working hours on the farm each day but Sunday do not allow me to read nor study the posts of this thread. May I, in kindness and sorrow of heart, say to those with beliefs other than gaining Salvation and Heaven through God's Son Jesus Christ: YOU WILL LEARN GOD'S ONE AND ONLY TRUTH TOO LATE AFTER DEATH This 71+ year old farmer's heart is pained and tears almost come to my eyes that it will be too late for you then...after death. It is appointed once for man to die and then the judgement. Is it not only fair, you do want a fair and just God, don't you, that you can only gain Heaven if you are in God's family? Do you feel the least bit drawn to God? Ask God to reveal Himself to you. In private, no one will make fun of your heart's search. Set aside the intellect. YOU CANNOT FIGURE OUT GOD'S WAY BUT YOU CAN FOLLOW HIS EASY TO UNDERSTAND INSTRUCTIONS AND TEACHING THAT SALVATION COMES ONLY THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST'S DEATH ON THE CROSS opening a way for each of you willing to confess your sins, your need of God. Christians are saved sinners and we continue to sin every day. However, God forgives every day and continues to spoon feed with His strength, knowledge, wisdom according to the measure appointed by Him to each of us INDIVIDUALLY. WE KNOW THAT WE DO NOT HAVE TO WORK FOR SALVATION AND HEAVEN is God's gift. CHRIST DIED THAT WE MAY INDEED HAVE LIFE ETERNAL. Oh yes, you will have life eternal also but WITHOUT GOD. You may think that this world is bad in many ways. However without God's reign on sin, we have no idea how bad it could be. God is patient with man but the day of judgement will come in His time. Whose family would you rather be in? Yes Virginia, there is a Heaven, there is a Hell. My heart pains for you who will not believe, Marshall W. Listen to those such as Steve whose heart goes out to each of you who are not in God's family. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. DO NOT WAIT UNTIL YOUR DEATH WHEN IT IS TOO LATE. ALSO: Do you not wish the best for your loved ones? Even if you DO NOT WISH TO ESCAPE HELL, do you not desire Heaven for those whom you love. God does not keep the way to Heaven and eternal life with Him a secret but again, you cannot understand His plan of Salvation with you intellect. You may want to argue intelectually but what does you heart really want? HEAVEN OR HELL. Do not think that Hell will be great "because you will have lots of company". You will all be under constant pain, torture, thirst. Oh, God is not fair you say, He would not send anyone to hell. You are correct, it is your choice which will send you to Hell because you DID NOT BELIEVE GOD. Just think, if I, Marshall W, am such a great, great sinner, how much more so would I be without THE GREAT I AM, THE ONLY TRUE GOD who drew me to Himself in 1949, two years after being discharged as a WW2 Army Tank Commander who, at the time of discharge, did not know God. Nothing in your life is too small or too big for God to be interested in...HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH THAT HE SENT HIS SON TO DIE IN YOUR PLACE. SALVATION CAN BE YOURS BUT YOU HAVE TO ASK WITH YOUR HEART. Sorry to be so long but my heart really deeply cares for each of you. Remember to vote for Jesus Christ.