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To: IngotWeTrust who wrote (19487)9/22/1998 10:50:00 AM
From: X Y Zebra  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 116762
 
Salud, dinero, amor... y tiempo para gozarlo.. desde luego, si no hay tiempo para gozar la lana, uno se convierte en borrego, mucha lana, mucha lana, pero si no la gozamos, nos la trasquilan y nos dejan todos pelones, como los de hospicio.....

Arriba, abajo, al centro... y pa'dentro... sal£.


LOL..... Honest, I do appreciate your effort, the above paragraph is full of slang.... slang in any language is difficult to learn, and sometimes to translate, however I will try....

The above was in response to Don Marcos, drinking toast. A not so well known drinking toast, that wishes for all present,

Health, money, and love... and the time to enjoy it

So "gozarlo" = "enjoy it" This is truly a wise (so far, no slang all normal language).

Now, the above was what Marcos had said simply repeated it, and then my response that accentuated the very concept of the toast said:

desde luego, si no hay tiempo para gozar la lana, uno se convierte en borrego, mucha lana, mucha lana, pero si no la gozamos, nos la trasquilan y nos dejan todos pelones, como los de hospicio.....

Which you got correct most of it....

And so it goes:

"Of course, if there is not much time to enjoy the money, then one becomes like a lamb, lots, of money, lots of money, but if we do not enjoy it, then everyone will shear it off us, leaving us all bald-headed, hospice boy(girl).

O.k..... a number of explanations:

Lana = Wool in English, also "dinero" in Mexican Slang.

The word "Plata" (silver) is similar, even in Mexico, but that is mostly used in the rest of Latin America.

"Pelon de hospicio" this is the hard one.... in earlier times, if you were a kid, your parents died, (also, you were poor and had no relatives), you were sent to these horrible "poor houses" or (the hospice), where as a matter of "practice" the first thing they did to you, was to shear your hair, and everyone looked the same, I assume to clean off lice and/or any other sundry infestation...

From there, the expression "pel¢n de hospicio" was born..... essentially meaning (if you were told so), that you were poor and destitute.

So, the "moral" of the saying is go have all the money, (lana - wool) you can make, but do not forget to enjoy it since if you do not, sooner or later, someone (or several somebodies), will shear it off, (take it, borrow it, steal it, etc. etc).... i.e. taxes, relatives, lovers, wife, your own children, bureaucrats etc, etc, etc,

As for:

Arriba, abajo, al centro... y pa'dentro... sal£.

That is another drinking toast.... a far more simple one, all it means, you take your glass, raise it up... take it down.... then to the center, and then it goes in.... (and drink it.)

Here the slang is only in the contraction of the words... para and adentro. or = pa'adentro. the literal translation is:

para = for, towards....

adentro = inside

So it goes..... up, down, center, and in (as you make the motions with your glass, of course this is a much more "simpleton" toast... it is used when you are already wasted, and talking becomes a true liability.... (for you and others).

Finally... Sal£ It should be Sal£d (Cheers)... but in following the above paragraph, at this point, you are supposed to be so wasted
that the saving of a single letter in your speech is of great benefit to you.

If you do not believe me, next time you are totally drunk, try to say both words.... Sal£ and Sal£d then we will talk....

The complete expression would be:

Sal£d Compadre.

Salud means Health, or in this instance it is equivalent to "Cheers"

The word Compadre (For the woman the word is "Comadre") describes the relationship between someone who has become a "Godfather" and the man that names you so. This title in the Mexican culture is an important title, not only do you become the potential father of your "ahijado" "ahijada" ("godson/goddaughter") but in addition:

In the old tradition, (it is no longer followed to the same extent in today's world), this is what it meant:

This "entitlement" originates in the "baptizing" of one's children, if a friend names you the PADRINO (GODFATHER), of his child, then a number of responsibilities come about.... for starters, you became the potential father of your friend's child, (in case of his death), however marital fringe benefits were NOT part of the deal.... at least officially.....

If you had children, then you were supposed to "return the favor" (i.e. get back at him, and name him the Godfather of your child).

The day of the baptize, you are expected at the end of the baptize to execute a "bolo padrino" i.e. get a bunch of GOLD and SILVER coins and send them flying up in the air so the children around will pick them up... this shows your generosity and wealth and it means that you are fit to become a proper PADRINO = GODFATHER

Where the meaning takes a new dimension is in.....

This comes from becoming a: Co-father... (and/or if you are married, your wife becomes the Co-mother), therefore, a degree of a more closer relationship is supposed to be achieved, after all, you are now "part of the family"

Such "closer relationship" is easier to achieve by drinking TOGETHER... as you would get rid of all your inhibitions, therefore, it is easier to "bond" together.

And this is where tradition continues.... to this day.

In fact, you can become a "drinking compadre", without the other liabilities....

Then, drinking becomes much easier, as you are nurturing a relationship.... where it can become touchy is if the drinking is executed between the "compadre" and the "comadre"..... I am sure that you have heard the expression of "one thing leads to another".... you get the picture...

One must be careful in choosing one's Compadres and Comadres, as I said, they become part of your family.....

To illustrate the point: One would not want to name his compadre, say, for example one individual like William Jefferson Clinton, not only is the man liable to assist you in, enthusiastically, drink your finest Burgundies, Bordeaux's, Tequila A¤ejos, XO Remy Martin, or Lagavulin's, but the chances of him assisting you with the "comadre" (i.e. your wife), are high, or "more than likely"....

Perhaps, modern society, after all, does show some signs of wisdom (not to mention practicality), and such tradition is no longer as common as it was in the past. While there were some important "family values" that were practiced, sometimes no doubt, the values were extended to less desired ones by some....

As for drinking compadres..... those certainly are more common, and in many instances instantaneous.

I hope the above did not created more questions than what it attempted to answer.

Z.



To: IngotWeTrust who wrote (19487)9/22/1998 1:28:00 PM
From: X Y Zebra  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 116762
 
An add on to my prior post....

O/49er,

As for....

BTW, regarding US S&L $500 Bil. bailout debacle 2 which you refer:
It was a manufactured situation to re-assign if you will, this nations choicest real estate assets/portfolios to a wealthier class in this nation, and niftily accomplished by Fed Reserve sleight of hand...


But even then, there was something done about it and not forgotten, whereas in other countries is either "swept under the rug" in hopes people forget about it or simply left there to waste and rot.

Endless examples can be given of the absolute excesses in corruption.

I remember, for example, an uncle of mine relating an experience in the 50's where the government announced the completion of a great port facility in Guaymas in Sonora, (Mexico) Only to find out that the port itself did not have the capacity to handle large ships.....

Or during the Oil boom of the mid 70's, where for example, if you were the transport secretary and had the ability to grant highway contracts, many projects were executed in this fashion, you the secretary, had a nephew, (or a compadre), who had a construction company, your compadre would get the contract provided that the project would cost say, $15 Million (US), the distribution would go along the lines of $5 million to cover the cost of the highway, (or whatever project), then $ 5 million for the nephew, and then $ 5 Million for you the secretary.

These funds, would be conveniently directed through US and/or Swiss accounts (or whatever) and under either fictitious names or under various corporate and/or trusts, that would make it impossible to find out.

Back in the early 80's a Coffee Secretary was caught with a personal Swiss account with $500 million (US).... and like that, there are many examples... eventually the country is saddled with billions in debt, unproductive projects and assets, and it never ends.....

Meanwhile, thanks to a glorious Catholic tradition, the population keeps on growing.... (hardly any birth control and/or family planning), and usually the main portion of the growth is in the lower classes....

1950 total population in Mexico was 30 million, current population (1998) is estimated at around 98 million, And the rate of growth is about 2.5 % per year.... mostly poor and uneducated/unskilled...that is about 2.5 million new babies EVERY YEAR......

What does that mean ?

It means increased social needs that many feel they need to be covered... by the government. (I do not agree with this philosophy, but that does not mean it does not exist, indeed in the eyes of many DEMANDED)

Then along comes a superior moron such as Presidente Carlos Salinas de Gortari.... Including Harvard degree and all, (and many other cohorts with degrees from Yale, LSE, and the like .....

They enter the Power theatre and enshrine the benefits of the "free market".

People being tired of prior corruption buy in the program in good faith, including many gringos, who come in and invest heavily....
Only to have these Harvard morons steal and squander like Colonial Viceroys that leave Al Capone and Co. look like kinder-garten bullies, in fact many of the officials are the worst criminals.

Exhibit 2.
General¡simo Arturo "El Negro" Durazo Chief and absolute Supremo of the Mexican Police (his reign was from 1976 to 1982), was the mastermind of a huge car thieves ring.

They used to steal Mercedes, BMW, Porches, etc. etc. primarily in the LA area, and then import them into Mexico.

Back then to "import" a car you needed a "permit" which meant only if you were well connected in the government would you get one.
Eventually he was caught and spent some time in "el reclusorio norte" (in jail)...
Meanwhile, as it has happened, the level of theft and squandering resources is so great that leaves the country in bad shape, and while many do progress, the social needs are unresolved and left with little infrastructure to solve the problems, to boot, "Free Markets" (Latin American Style), suffers a bad name.....

Once again... Trust is the key word.

The move to a GOLD standard will do little to help this situation, because GOLD standard or not, these bastards will continue to do what they do.

They will continue to go to the IMF and ask for help, the bureaucrats will figure out a way to convince their respective flocks to continue "trusting them". And so long there are enough of them it will be hard to convince them otherwise.

What has happened, (or it is in the process of happening), is that the US is becoming the lender of last resort to the WORLD. (via the IMF).

In the Mexican bail out, most of the money was guaranteed by OIL RECEIPTS from PEMEX (the nationalized Oil Company). It appears that those monies have been returned or at least out of danger for now.

If we were to base currencies on GOLD, while the concept in principle, (i.e. gold is valuable scarce etc. etc. yielding respectability to what backs, i.e. the specific currency), the practicality of it does not sound so hot, particularly when these bureaucrats will continue to do their tricks, in some instances they have no choice, since as explained, the social needs are mounting rapidly.

Remember that this rampant growth is taking place not only in Lat Am, but throughout the third world.

How many people will have the education to enforce the discipline that it is needed to effectively carry out what the Gold Standard is supposed to achieve. Please understand that I am NOT totally opposed
to the GOLD STANDARD, I am simply doubtful that countries will be able to implement it.

Particularly when they have MOUNTAINS of the stuff, and social demands continually growing.

The so-called "Hot Money" seems to have instilled some fear, hence discipline in some head supremos around the world, and in this sense, I believe that Latin America is beginning to learn the lessons.

This imposed discipline is possible because the people that control the funds have NO FLAG to follow, other than Profit and self interest, (I view this as positives). Under this environment the best possible solution for the politician is to be honest and effective in their policies, so far not understood and/or practiced by many.

So what I am saying is that unless the world participants are willing to say, the Gold Standard is sound and we are willing to follow it, I see little chance of this happening.

Particularly under the practicalities demanded of today's fast paced world, where investors can and do shift billions of assets from country to country (the proverbial "Hot Money"), at the stroke of a computer key.

Today, the US Dollar (or assets denominated so), seem to have taken such a role, perhaps the world, mistakenly so, has decided that for now it is convenient to do so. Provided the trust of the majority deciding that (in spite of all known troubles of the US), this currency does offer some safety and convenience, at least compared to their own currency.

The above, to me it seems that it is the way things are working.

For a while it was perceived that $270 to $280 was the "floor" price of gold...... now such notion does not seem so, in fact I have read here that now $150 is a possible price ?. At the same time, I hear from some technicians that gold could rebound to a price of $350.

In my own opinion I tend to view gold as an industrial commodity under pressure as all commodities have been for a while, its rebound will depend more on the demand for the metal, (long term), and to a lesser strength, based on a possible technical rebound, (short term).

I confess I am not an expert on the subject, merely expressing my views, offering my side and eager to learn from better-trained individuals on the subject.

Finally as for Japan, and given the article I made reference to of the punitive taxation on capital assets, I view such, as the main reason for the impossibility of the Japanese assets to rebound.

I do not discount the comments made in reference to the need to reform and clean out the banking and insurance industries either.

--------------------
***** OT ******

Re: Translations:

gozarlo = enjoy it from verb "Gozar" to enjoy

trasquilan = shear them verb "Trasquilar" to shear

pelones = bald heads (plural) singular pel¢n (slang)

sal£ = cheers (slang), proper word "sal£d". It can also mean health.

centro = center (as "in the middle")

p dentro = contraction of the words para & adentro, so it is

pa'dentro, meaning: for (or toward) the inside (slang), this as you drink whatever beverage you have in your glass.

The mere fact that you tried to translate is appreciated, it shows your appreciation for knowledge and such, I will always respect.

You did a fine job, you got most of it, and the type of language I used, unless you are a native or a long time resident familiar with the slang and indeed the idiosyncrasies of the place it would be impossible to know.

btw.... in the interest of full disclosure, all the references to drinking etc. they are all learned from others, as I do not drink (other than fine wine and a little Lagavulin), I say this as I do not want to give the wrong impression that I have lots of drinking Compadres and Comadres.... he, he, he....

Besides, it has been more enjoyable to watch with gleeful eyes the travails of others in these experiences. The thought of the "day after" experience, instill enough fear in me so as to stay away from the stuff, as I do not handle the experience very well.

Thanks again.