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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: jbe who wrote (8351)10/9/1998 12:16:00 AM
From: Volsi Mimir  Respond to of 67261
 
Why Democrats vote against Clinton
Posted at 07:15 a.m. PDT; Thursday, October 8, 1998
Close-Up
seattletimes.com

by Dick Polman
Knight Ridder Newspapers
The 1990s have not been kind to the Democrats of Capitol Hill. Six years ago, Bill Clinton was supposed to lead them to glory. Yet now he feels like dead weight, and the Democrats don't quite know what to do with him anymore.
Today, a number of House Democrats were preparing to lighten their load. They decided to vote with the majority Republicans to launch an open-ended impeachment inquiry.

They are trying to ensure their own political survival - and if that conflicts with the president's interests, so be it. After all, they ask, what has he ever done for them?

A big part of Clinton's problem - aside from the fact that nobody wants to defend his behavior in the Monica Lewinsky scandal or to dispute the charge that he lied under oath - is that many Hill Democrats feel no loyalty to him. They have been complaining about him for years and blaming him for their woes.

The '94 elections

In the 1994 elections, they lost their House majority when Clinton's failures, notably on health care, inspired Republican voters to show up and Democratic voters to stay home. In 1996, they lost an opportunity to win back the House when Clinton's fund-raising scandal broke in the last weeks of the campaign and appeared to dampen Democratic turnout.

There have been other grievances. In 1993, House Democrats put their careers on the line to back a big presidential tax increase - and some lost their seats in 1994 as a result. Yet, at a 1995 fund-raiser, Clinton apologized to an audience of affluent Texans for raising their taxes. Many Democrats still cite this incident as evidence that Clinton cares only about himself.

As a result, one official close to the House Democratic leadership said privately yesterday, "We want our people to know that we don't expect them to walk the plank for the president and possibly lose their seats over this."

Who is defecting

Republican pollster Kellyanne Fitzpatrick said two kinds of Democrats joined the Republicans: "The 'Blue Dog' Democrats are the conservative types who don't have much love lost for this president. The second kind are those who represent largely conservative districts and who have tough re-election races this month."

Those vulnerable Democrats couldn't afford to oppose the GOP inquiry. Said Fitzpatrick: "They would have to go home and face voters who would say to them, 'This guy has lied under oath; you and your colleagues admit it, yet you are shrugging your shoulders about it.' "

In addition, House Democratic leaders believed that some liberal members were voting for the GOP inquiry as an expression of their personal distaste for Clinton's behavior - and in recognition of the fact that the inquiry was going to be approved anyway.

Voting against Clinton was probably easiest for the so-called Blue Dogs, who hail primarily from Texas, Louisiana, South Carolina and Virginia.

The term "Blue Dog" twists an old joke about "Yellow Dog" Democrats - Southern Democrats so loyal they'd vote for an old yellow dog if it ran on the ticket. Blue Dogs say they're Yellow Dogs who've turned blue from being choked by the party's liberal majority.

The Blue Dogs are the remnants of the conservative Democratic ranks, thinned considerably by the party's losses during the Clinton era, and the White House didn't expect to win them over.

Indeed, one Blue Dog, Rep. Gene Taylor of Mississippi, has said he thinks Clinton is a perjurer: "He knew what he was doing; he went to one of the best law schools in the country. I happen to think that the law has been broken, and I'm willing to move it on to the Senate."

Those in 'swing' districts

The decision to defect was tougher for others. Some Democrats are fighting to keep their seats in Ohio, Illinois and Connecticut, in "swing" districts that oscillate between the two parties. To hang on to the job, they had to choose politically.

Voting for the GOP inquiry brings the risk of alienating their core Democratic voters - particularly African Americans, the most loyal Clinton constituency. But loyalty to Clinton is a risk as well, because a "no" vote might rouse the conservative voters to turn out in greater numbers for their opponents. And conservatives are plentiful in many of these swing districts; in close races, their participation could be pivotal.

Among the president's staunchest defenders were two members of the House Judiciary Committee, neither of whom appears to represent a swing district.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., represents a district that stretches from Greenwich Village to the Upper West Side and includes a slice of Brooklyn home to some of America's most passionate liberals and gay activists.

And the ranking Democrat on the committee, Michigan's Rep. John Conyers, represents a portion of Detroit and is one of the founders of the Congressional Black Caucus.

Who'll vote Nov. 3 is key

All these Democrats have seen the polls which show that Americans are generally fed up with the scandal and hostile to impeachment. The hitch is that many of those people won't vote on Nov. 3. A new Republican poll, released yesterday, reports that Clinton-haters are the people most motivated to cast ballots in next month's election.

James Thurber, a congressional analyst and former Hill aide who is tracking key races this year under a grant from Pew Charitable Trusts, said yesterday: "These Democrats can't afford to take any risks. They don't want to go home to a county fair and risk having the first question be, 'Why did you vote against the impeachment inquiry?' And a challenger can really hammer them on that. They don't want to be in the position of explaining a negative."

Some Democrats said privately that it was possible to vote for the GOP inquiry with a clear conscience - and with sufficient political cover.

They noted that David Schippers, the chief GOP counsel on the Judiciary Committee, is a Chicago Democrat who prosecuted mobsters in the 1960s for Attorney General Robert Kennedy.

And Connecticut Sen. Joseph Lieberman, one of the first top Democrats to criticize Clinton, said on the radio last Friday, "We've just got to get real and know that the inquiry is going to happen - and figure out how to let it happen."

Information from The Associated Press is included in this report.




To: jbe who wrote (8351)10/9/1998 12:49:00 AM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 67261
 
jbe, does you or anyone make heads or tails from James Traficant's flip-flop? From a fire-n-brimstone thundering speech of a few weeks damning "double standards", today he says it's all just about a little lie about sex. I've heard both speech clips, and I'm utterly flabbergasted. His speech of a few weeks ago was so vehement in his utter condemnation of the President's terrible deeds that I actually did think that he was a right-wing Republican! Now today I find out that James Traficant is actually a Democrat! What's up with these people...I was ready to hail him as a heroic truth-seeker/justice-seeker/nobody-is-above-the-law/if-we-let-him-go-the-soldiers-in-cemetaries-will-roll-over-in-their-graves type of person.

Now the fury and sound has disappeared from Mr. Traficant's lips, and in the place is sounds which seem to support giving the President a pass on any supposed wrongdoing about consentual sex between two of-age adults doing their thing the privacy of Bill's personal Oval Office.

Baffling.



To: jbe who wrote (8351)10/9/1998 1:16:00 AM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 67261
 
jbe, re >and 5 because they planned to vote for the Republican proposal.<

You mean the Democratic Rodino proposal. It should be noted that both the current Democratic proposal (ex-proposal, now), and the current proposal which is supported by the Republican majority, are *both* designed and originated by Democrats. In fact, the Democrats at first wanted a "Rodino-style" inquiry: To which the Republicans said, "okay". Then the Democrats looked at the nuts-and-bolts rules of the Nixon Inquiry headed by the Rodino committee, and quickly backed off their desire for it now.

But the Republicans have simply said, "if it was good then, its good now. We use Rodino rules". And the Dems, who designed Rodino rules, don't like it. Too bad. It's costly to lose majority status in Congress, as the Dems are finding out.



To: jbe who wrote (8351)10/9/1998 7:55:00 AM
From: Machaon  Respond to of 67261
 
Very informative note.

Thanks, Bob



To: jbe who wrote (8351)10/9/1998 9:36:00 AM
From: j_b  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 67261
 
Thanks for the URL - I'll take a look at the proposal this morning. Based on your summary, I agree that it looks reasonable. I haven't looked at the "winning" proposal yet either, but from what I was able to gather from the talking heads last night (when compared to your summary), the only difference would be that the House doesn't have to wait until they get a referral from Starr to look at any given "gate". That would exclude Chinagate, but they could always look at that separately, especially since it is already under investigation by the House. It seems to me that the Republicans passed up a chance to have an almost unanimous vote of no confidence in Clinton, in order to look stronger than the Democrats.

<<What makes the House think that the Judiciary Committee can find something on these gates that Starr could not??>>

If you go back to when Starr was first appointed, you will see that the Democrats actually liked him and the Republicans did not. He was seen as not motivated to find wrongdoing on the part of the President because Starr had Supreme Court aspirations. Some people blamed Starr's findings about Vince Foster on those aspirations. It may be that the House Republicans feel that Starr has purposely not looked at much of the information available, and isn't really trying to "get" Clinton. After all, so much "proof" has been put forward by people other than Starr, that it seems suspicious that Starr wasn't able to come up with anything. I don't agree with this, but I have heard this put forward by House Republicans on C-Span.

<<did you actually hunt for any websites dedicated to "Saving Our President"? >>

Not yet - that's on my to-do list for the weekend.

Thanks again for the information.



To: jbe who wrote (8351)10/9/1998 12:00:00 PM
From: Zoltan!  Respond to of 67261
 
You're right, the fact that only 5 Dems supported the Clinton position shows the greatest vote of no confidence imaginable in his failed Residency.



To: jbe who wrote (8351)10/9/1998 12:05:00 PM
From: one_less  Respond to of 67261
 
I still don't understand what is meant by censure. Anybody seen a definition?