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Pastimes : Dream Machine ( Build your own PC ) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Zeuspaul who wrote (2848)	10/11/1998 6:48:00 AM
From: Dave Bissett	Respond to of 14778

Minor update....couldn't sit on my hands waiting on parts so yesterday I built a cabinet for the new system, related storage, and up to 3 monitors on top...courtesy of Home Depot. Also, I have to give a pat on the back to hardwarestreet com. Thursday morning I ordered the Celeron from them because the vendor I originally ordered from had not yet gotten any in and I didn't want to wait any longer. After ordering I phoned to check on inventory/shipping and was told the chip was not in the default first-choice Texas warehouse but the order would be automatically rerouted to the warehouse that had stock. Well, I rechecked Friday afternoon and this had not happened...was told their computer system failed to act right. I was on hold for a long time but when the customer service rep came back he said they had phoned the correct warehouse to get the order out and had upgraded me to FedEX overnight, no charge. Order shipping was confirmed via E-mail Saturday. Very good service I'd say and well worth doing business with them again. Dave

To: Zeuspaul who wrote (2848)	10/11/1998 10:05:00 AM
From: Sean W. Smith	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 14778

ZP you keep comparing apples oranges.... *It would not be my first choice. It is very slow. If you tried a complete backup of 4.5GB +/- you would have to span several discs. It would take hours and you would have to attend the backup* Jaz Disk is very fast compared to Tape, CDR, MO, Zip, or anything else except another hard disk. I don't use Jaz for Backup but for disaster recovery. regardless of swapping media doing a KOT mirror or disaster recovery image is NOT an automated backup. PM or DriveImage don't run in batch mode so both your procedure and mine require user intervention. mine may require a media swap as well. *CDR musical CD's work on most computers and home stereos but are hit and miss on car stereos* True, depending on media type. What does this have to do with backup/KOT? It is also not well suited to the most important type of backup IMO..selected file backup. These are your financial records etc. On a daily basis or whenever they change important files that are kept in a specific directory or group of directories should be backed up. The easiest way to do this is in Explorer or other file management utility (I still like Xtree Gold 3.0 for DOS, I use it in DOS, Win95 and NT <g>). CD RW is not suited to this type of simple backup. You need specialized software to drive the CD R and CD RW devices. Sean has had good success with CDR and Adaptec CDR software but many others are not so lucky. Completely inaccurate info here. Many CDR's CDRW's come with seagate backup exec CDR for 95/NT which is a very robust package that can do full, differential, incremental backups completely automated via their scheduler to CDR or CDRW. I know two people who employ this as they primary backup strategy. Needless to say. CDR/CDRW is not applicable as a KOT device. *The easiest way to do this is in Explorer or other file management utility (I still like Xtree Gold 3.0 for DOS, I use it in DOS, Win95 and NT <g>). CD RW is not suited to this type of simple backup* can you say manual process?? My daily backups happen 7 days a week without user intervention period. *Sean has had good success with CDR and Adaptec CDR software but many others are not so lucky.* I'm confused, what does this have to do with backup/KOT? I'll skip the rest of the post. Its clear there is some confusion as to what I do for backups and why I do it. You keep confusing the backup and KOT terms. I think your misleading the readers into a false sense of security with KOT. As you have said. KOT is not a backup. Its disaster recovery. 1 lightning strike, fire, etc and KOT is dust. A Backup solution is essential to backup data. If a backup solution doesn't incoporate, removable media, automation, no swapping, cataloging, and a rotation schedule its all but useless IMO. There are numerous medias and drives avaialble for this task. My current favorities are TR-4 Tape, Syquest SparQ. Both work well and have a low cost per Gigabyte. CDRW may be a viable solution. BTW: ZP, should have tested Drive Image. you were foolsih to rely on it with it trying fisrt. I have tested it extensively on two machines and 3 os's before relying on it. no problems so far. You could easily adapt your KOT drive as a test vehicle. Sorry about your difficulties. Pays to be prepared. Sean

To: Zeuspaul who wrote (2848)	10/11/1998 3:28:00 PM
From: Dave Hanson	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 14778

Very sorry to hear about your DI difficulties, ZP. FWIW, I've restored many partitions via DI with no problems (always using "low" compression, which saves me between 30-55% compared to the size of the original partitions.) My guess is that your suspicions of a bad HDD as a source are indeed correct. I have not yet tried the individual file restore which is reportedly available as of the 2.01 patch. As I've suggested before I think this will make DI even more useful. I've been tempted by CD-RW several times, but between the low cost of hard drives and the other backup solutions available to me (zip, sparq, and other machines on the home LAN), I've decided to hold out for DVD RAM (already shipping at > $500) unless I see a deal too good to pass up. Only thing I miss now is not being able to master and copy music CDs.

To: Zeuspaul who wrote (2848)	10/11/1998 5:05:00 PM
From: Clarence Dodge	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 14778

ZP Partition the first drive a la Dave, clone it to the KOT a la ZP, and backup to tape a la Sean. Well ..to my inexperienced mind that appears to provide enough coverage and is agood sythesis of the various techniques used by others here.... kind of a 'Wraparound Policy" <g> I like it and barring any problems someone else might see here I think I'LL go with it. Thank you again ZP I have no desire to test backups on a working machine. A ridiculous answer might be to have a third hard drive reserved for backup testing.<g> I guess no amount of backup and KOT precaution will work for 100% of the problems a computer system can throw at you. But I'm sorry that happened to you ,too. I was not happy with a complete system restore from tape that I had to do a few months back. It just wasn't complete because I always show errors during backups. I then started to also but my (mac) Syst folder onto Jaz periodically. But, you know how that goes after awhile. Clarence

To: Zeuspaul who wrote (2848)	10/11/1998 7:11:00 PM
From: Sean W. Smith	Respond to of 14778

Oops look like it came through twice. SI was having technical problems this AM when I was trying to post this... ZP you keep comparing apples oranges.... *It would not be my first choice. It is very slow. If you tried a complete backup of 4.5GB +/- you would have to span several discs. It would take hours and you would have to attend the backup* Jaz Disk is very fast compared to Tape, CDR, MO, Zip, or anything else except another hard disk. I don't use Jaz for Backup but for disaster recovery. regardless of swapping media doing a KOT mirror or disaster recovery image is NOT an automated backup. PM or DriveImage don't run in batch mode so both your procedure and mine require user intervention. mine may require a media swap as well. *CDR musical CD's work on most computers and home stereos but are hit and miss on car stereos* True, depending on media type. What does this have to do with backup/KOT? It is also not well suited to the most important type of backup IMO..selected file backup. These are your financial records etc. On a daily basis or whenever they change important files that are kept in a specific directory or group of directories should be backed up. The easiest way to do this is in Explorer or other file management utility (I still like Xtree Gold 3.0 for DOS, I use it in DOS, Win95 and NT <g>). CD RW is not suited to this type of simple backup. You need specialized software to drive the CD R and CD RW devices. Sean has had good success with CDR and Adaptec CDR software but many others are not so lucky. Completely inaccurate info here. Many CDR's CDRW's come with seagate backup exec CDR for 95/NT which is a very robust package that can do full, differential, incremental backups completely automated via their scheduler to CDR or CDRW. I know two people who employ this as they primary backup strategy. Needless to say. CDR/CDRW is not applicable as a KOT device. *The easiest way to do this is in Explorer or other file management utility (I still like Xtree Gold 3.0 for DOS, I use it in DOS, Win95 and NT <g>). CD RW is not suited to this type of simple backup* can you say manual process?? My daily backups happen 7 days a week without user intervention period. *Sean has had good success with CDR and Adaptec CDR software but many others are not so lucky.* I'm confused, what does this have to do with backup/KOT? I'll skip the rest of the post. Its clear there is some confusion as to what I do for backups and why I do it. You keep confusing the backup and KOT terms. I think your misleading the readers into a false sense of security with KOT. As you have said. KOT is not a backup. Its disaster recovery. 1 lightning strike, fire, etc and KOT is dust. A Backup solution is essential to backup data. If a backup solution doesn't incoporate, removable media, automation, no swapping, cataloging, and a rotation schedule its all but useless IMO. There are numerous medias and drives avaialble for this task. My current favorities are TR-4 Tape, Syquest SparQ. Both work well and have a low cost per Gigabyte. CDRW may be a viable solution. BTW: ZP, should have tested Drive Image. you were foolsih to rely on it with it trying fisrt. I have tested it extensively on two machines and 3 os's before relying on it. no problems so far. You could easily adapt your KOT drive as a test vehicle. Sorry about your difficulties. Pays to be prepared. Sean