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Pastimes : The Meaning of Life - Discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: CharleyMike who wrote (221)	10/17/1998 1:23:00 AM
From: Ontopequity	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 242

I could not agree more with you in regards to the supernatural presence being readily available to any and all who seek. However the entire message and theme of the Hebrew and Christian scripture is the inability of man to achieve righteousness, peace and joy in the Holly Spirit in and of himself. The apostle Paul quite clearly made this point by quoting the 700 B.C. writings of Isaiah: "There is no one righteous, not even one" He makes clear in the Book of Romans that those who break God's written laws will be judged by those laws, and those who do not have the written laws will be judged by thier consciences " since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them" Romans chapter 2 &3. He goes on to persuade like a lawyer in a court room, that man apart from the Lord's regenerative forgiveness and spiritual empowerment, is in fact dead in sin.Paul strives so carefully to make the point in the entire book that all have sinned and fall short of the golry of God and are justified freely by grace. (grace coming from the greek word "charis" meaning "gift"). He goes further to argue that if spiritual renewal and forgiveness is a "free gift", then it is not, and can not be ahieved by human effort or "works". One works for wages, but a gift is given, and hence is neither earned nor achieved. If you could achieve righteousness and peace by merely looking inside yourself, then indeed Christ died in vain and faith is of no use. One thing is certain, we can not have peace unless we have righteuosness. We need only look at people and nations who most consistently and thoroughly lower moral standards, to see that they all have one thing in common: Such individuals and nations have incredible anxiety, turmoil, and chaos. Therefore it stands to reason, that true peace is found in truly being forgiven and walking in that forgiveness and grace; to somehow be empowered to a life of ever increasing righteousness.( Not a life of perfection) . I found it interesting that your Father is a fundamentalist Evangelical. My father was a strong aetheist but his faith is getting weaker. I was raised anti-God, anti establishment, a product of the so called free hippi movement. Consequently, I too have a natural mistrust and lack of respect for most organised religion. I didn't really understand your line of questioning with respect to Jesus' prophetical ministry somehow conflicting with his divinity as a member of the so called "Trinity". Personally I don't care for the term "Trinity", as this term was never mentioned in any of the biblical texts. This was a term which was coined by the organised chruch establishment to defend the "mystery of the Godhead" spoken of in scipture. I preffer to allow the written scripture to speak for itself, rather than trying to explain and distill complex ideas into simple little man-made phrases. As it is written; "Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: he appeard in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations. Was believed on in the world, was taken up to glory. 1 Timothy 3:16" That Christ is was considered a prophet by many people, certainly does not rob him of his prior existence before the foundation of the world. - Any more than his experience of being an infant in the arms of his mother would. I find evangelical Christianity in it's zeal to convince people of his divinity, often portrays Christ as some sort of super hero who wasn't a normal guy.Watch any Christain film about Christ and you see some strange aura or halo effect. (I find this so annoying that I would almost preffer to watch Hollywoods rendition of his full humanity at the expense and corruption of his divinity.) The scriptures paint a far different picture of a man who was, to many people, nothing too special at all. Why else were "sinners", tax collectors, prostitutes, and drunkards so comfortable hanging out with him and inviting him to thier houses and parties? Why else do you suppose the religious establishment called him a bastard and clamoured for his crucifiction? The Divinity was veiled in human flesh. As far as Jesus being Hebrew; it goes without question. The hebrew prophet Moses records the name Elohim translated as "God" in our english translations. It is interesting to note that the suffix "im" is alway used as plural in the hebrew language. Why is it written that "God said let us make man in our own Image" Gen1:26??? The concept of the plurality is somehow corrupted and lost in the english translation but they tried to be true to the hebrew in this text. In subsequent chapters Moses makes his often quoted statement that "The Lord our God (Elohim), the Lord is One. There is One God oh Isreal." Clearly there is a message that is comming across here, and it isn't polytheism! The Father, the Son, and the holy Spirit? The mystery is there, but so are the skeletal facts which have given such illumination and hope to so many people in so many generations down through the centuries and up to this very hour. I hope I am not too long winded. You have stirred my thinking and caused me to pull out my Bible and Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. For this I am thankful.