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Politics : Clinton's Scandals: Is this corruption the worst ever? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (8370)	10/16/1998 1:25:00 AM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 13994

Hi all; Just picked up a copy of People of the Lie by M. Scott Peck, MD. Fascinating book, first out back in '83. He feels that lying is central to evil, particularly lying to oneself. An interesting thought... Some quotes (pages refer to ISBN 0-671-45492-7, 0-671-52816-5.) p. 76 We become evil by attempting to hide from ourselves. The wickedness of the evil is not committed directly, but indirectly as a part of this cover-up process. Evil originates not in the absence of guilt but in the effort to escape it. p. 107 (regarding some nasty parents) Another typical -- and rather intriguing -- feature of the cases of Bobby and Roger is the extraordinary unity of their parents. Each set of parents functioned as a team. With thought to the difficult of some Democrats to accept what Bill Clinton (as a father figure for the country) has been doing: p. 130 To come to terms with evil in one's parentage is perhaps the most difficult and painful psychological task a human being can be called on to face. Most fail and so remain its victims. p. 135 ... "wherever there is evil, there's a lie around," I remarked. "Evil always has something to do with lies." Describing the tendency of habitual liars to scapegoat others, (particularly those that are easy to bully, like Clinton's women, or the various victims in Nazi Germany.) p. 136 We can see, then, that their narcissism makes the evil dangerous not only because it motivates them to scapegoat others but because it deprives them of the restraint that results from empathy and respect for others In addition to the fact that the evil need victims to sacrifice to their narcissism, their narcissism permits them to ignore the humanity of their victims as well. Funny thing is that enough of the American public believed that Clinton could "feel their pain," when he obviously was unable to feel the pain of those closest to him... He's a sicko. The Republican party is doing the Democrats a favor in helping to rid them of him. -- Carl

To: greenspirit who wrote (8370)	10/16/1998 1:45:00 AM
From: Borzou Daragahi	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 13994

Trust, honesty, Integrity, courage, decency, and the principle of fairness Are all values I try to pursue in my daily life and look for in others whom I am close to. Unfortunately, suspicion, lying, opportunism, cowardice, ambition, and a vicious streak are the values that will get you ahead in the world my elders created. (Hey, I'm part of Generation X, after all.) Why the hell would I expect anything more from the president of the United States? Let's start with the demagogic Indian murderer Andrew Jackson, who perfected demogagic American mass politics and party machines. Let's go on to Teddy Roosevelt, a creation of William Randolph Hearst, who allowed the lie that he was a war hero to be perpetuated in order that he could win the presidency. Even Roosevelt lied about his illness in order to assure his reelection. Eisenhower--he seems like a man of integrity--but he waited until after he was out of office to warn the country about what he felt was its gravest danger--the military industrial complex. That's cowardice: "I'm not going to let my true beliefs get in the way of my presidency." Kennedy stole the election, I think we can all agree, and was buddies with the mob and turned the White House into a brothel. Johnson--liar and war criminal--the indiscriminate carpet bombing of North Vietnam and suckering the country into war via the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Nixon--oh God, poor Richard Millhouse. A man consumed by vanity, opportunism and power lust till the end.... So now we come to Clinton. And I'm all of a sudden supposed to muster up some outrage over this man's lying about an affair under oath? It sounds like an episode of Three's Company for God's sake! I'm far more upset by his spinelessness in other areas. But yes, I sense you've got me right, I believe in my friends, my family, I believe in you, Michael, and all Americans. I don't, however, believe in some mythological conception of America's virtue or the sanctity of the presidency.

To: greenspirit who wrote (8370)	10/16/1998 10:27:00 AM
From: jbe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 13994

..There are just as many people backing Clinton who are trying to silence people of moral principles into silence by lumping them in with the far right.... Michael, I would agree (except, perhaps, with the "just as many" -g-). I am even prepared to defend members of the "far right." Perhaps you overlooked this paragraph towards the very end of my first post: Similarly, I might add, "Clintonistas" should not assume that anyone who publicly identifies himself/herself with the Religious Right, for example, is necessarily a wicked bigot and therefore wrong! I think that if you look closer, you might conclude that the basic debate here is not over Clinton, but over the issue of tolerance. Liberals, by definition, see tolerance as a virtue (those that do not are not true liberals). The farthest to the right seem to see it as a vice. This is what leads to the tendency I pointed out in my first post, which is to condemn alternative views as "immoral." For an extreme example of this, see the following: cuttingedge.org The basic thesis of this diatribe/sermon is that... "Clinton's ability to score ever higher in public opinion polls despite his unfolding scandals reveal much about the new values and attitudes of the American people. They are now ready to be swayed by the spiritual superman of the New Age [Antichrist]." Wow! Clinton as precursor of the Antichrist! And most of us as his followers! Heavy duty stuff! And pretty scary -- if we take it seriously. Should we? Awaiting your reply, I remain, Going to Hell in a handbasket, <gg> Joan :-)