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Non-Tech : MB TRADING -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: wily who wrote (1478)	10/19/1998 8:47:00 PM
From: Sheri	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7382

I have been caught in that ISLD trap before too (wish they would change that). So I watch now, and have seen ISLD on the ask, then someone come on the bid at the ask, and the ISLD offers disappear, I wonder if they are cancelled. Worst part is you are plain out cancelled, meaning another commission. I have had good ISLD fills lately for some reason, but in the past got some very weird fills as you noted.

To: wily who wrote (1478)	10/19/1998 9:30:00 PM
From: TraderAlan	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 7382

Wily, ISLD is ISLD is ISLD. It shouldn't matter what broker you use. Your order shouldn't cancel if the bid/offer moves away from your price. If you go inside again, you should have the opportunity to get the balance filled. If it is a Watley quirk to cancel you out, that could get expensive if your strategy is to work off a position a piece at a time. Alan

To: wily who wrote (1478)	10/19/1998 10:23:00 PM
From: DougB	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7382

wily, it is an ISLD problem. Let me see if I can 'splain it, and anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Using the example of a stock that is taking a hard shake, and appears to be bottoming at 1/8 x 1/4. You bid 3/16 for 1000 shares and someone kindly hits you for 100 shares. ISLD does not just change your displayed size from 10 to 9! Instead it pulls the 10, then re-displays a 9. If, during that split second while ISLD is refreshing your order, some MM or another ecn drops the ask to 3/16, the balance of your order will be rejected for locking the market. Now if someone else on ISLD (or a MM or another ecn) had joined you at the 3/16 bid, then, when your 900 share buy got refreshed by ISLD, you would be back at the top of the ISLD queue. Worse yet, if you have "Sound Events" set up in RealTick, you will get a "Order Partialed" sound for the partial fill, and a "Order Filled" sound when the balance is rejected, so keep an eye on your position minder. db

To: wily who wrote (1478)	10/19/1998 11:32:00 PM
From: Robert Cohen	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7382

The folowin is a quote from the Advanced Trading Course at Elite Trader: "Orders entered on Island can be designated by your broker as either ATOMIC or DIVISIBLE, depending on the system used by the broker to enter the order. An ATOMIC order can only be executed once, so if there is any execution for less than the full size of the ATOMIC order, the balance will die. A DIVISIBLE order can be executed in several lots, so even if only a part of the full size is executed, the balance will remain on the ECN book until it is executed or canceled. I was told by the creator of the Island ECN, Josh Levine, that "There are several dozen firms that use systems that do not support DIVISIBLE orders. In the case where an ATOMIC order is partially executed, it is up to the order entry firm to decide whether to re-enter the remaining shares back into Island." Several dozen?? Wow, that's a lot of firms. That could mean 60 or more brokerages that use ATOMIC orders." Robert