Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Pastimes : Ask and You Shall Receive -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: John S. who wrote (792)	10/30/1998 2:05:00 PM
From: Grantcw	Respond to of 14396

Hello Gregor and John, I appreciate both of your posts. They have definitely ministered to me. The girl in question is generally very nice and I don't think she would purposefully attack me spiritually. I'm pretty sure she just got some words confused. Nevertheless, I will most likely speak to her again about the issue to question what she meant by what she said. Thank you both again for your help. The words of the prayer definitely had a confusing effect on me for the past 12 hours or so. God Bless, Grant

To: John S. who wrote (792)	10/30/1998 2:23:00 PM
From: gregor	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 14396

Hello John: Thank you for your sincere response to Grant's questions. This whole question is about abuse of grace. Just as the Law was abused for men's desires and aims and ambitions so can grace be abused. I have been reading the past three nights about Pauline doctrine and it's implications to the evangelic movement. Then I know that the Lord was dealing with me when I heard a sermon in which a pastor was reading out of John Wesley's diary. He had been kicked out of 10 churches in a row and asked not ever to return and then the final post read " preached to 10,000 in a field". The implication of very secretively getting someone to doubt salvation or God's presence or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is devilish in origin. I had to re-type my message three times this morning because of some devilish interuptions in not wanting us to get on this topic. The implications are that the person praying this for another is somehow superior in the faith, or that their salvation is more sure than yours, or for control over another, or for personal gain and the list can go on to the depths of hell. I am not saying that this person is in danger of the judgement but there is a verse where the person will go to heaven as a moth passes through a flame. Do you know of that verse ? I tried to find it and could not. I was playing golf, once, with a pastor and could not believe my ears. He was telling me how most of his efforts were in reaching the lost in his own congregation. I said how can that be ? If a person is attending church and confessing Christ and His shed blood, why do you consider them lost. His reply was, that, well, most people attend church just for the "looks of it" and are not sincere in their belief. I responded, it is not the sincerity of your belief that saves you but the object of your faith. And that object for me is Christ the Righteous. Praise God. Hallejah. It was less than two years later this man was dead. The Lord took him at a relatively young age. It was the Lords will to take that dead congregation he was pastor over and make soul winners out of them. If a man is not sure of his own salvation how can he ever be used to win souls. It was estimated that the church of the Romans was 65 in number; and Paul had a problem or two with them along these lines. Never, was there a conscious decision made by Paul to instill doubt of salvation: contrarily salvation was always the assumption; I know there are some scriptures where this could be debated. There were the old Jewish leaders that were trying to instill adherance to the law in a type of watered down grace. But my feeling is that Paul was trying to get them to accept grace, pure and simple. The megachurches of today, especially those of the evangelic movement present a new and challenging array of problems. Within any of these large congregations you will find those espousing a works unto salvation message, with frequent quotes of James " faith w/o works is dead". Many times it is the pastor offering a watered down version of grace. Often it is a dilution of grace or a mixture of works and grace. Often it is even more subtle and deadly; just planting the seed of doubt !! that is inolved. I have seen it happen too many times. The very elect will fall to this "gospel". Usually it is adultery or financial ruin that will bring these people down. The results are that by this false doctrine, sure peace or contentment is never received. There is always this lingering doubt . Am I giving enough, or good enough, or accepted enough. Man has not to accept us,nor is it our goodness, nor our conviction that counts. Christ is the one convicted to save us and seal us. Christ is the one good enough. Christ is the one worthy enough. Christ is the one that gave enough. gregor