SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (12280)11/2/1998 1:10:00 PM
From: one_less  Respond to of 67261
 
<<We all know any woman can be a mom. >>

Definitely not true. In fact, quality moms are rare and in high demand. I think what you meant to say was nearly any woman can make a baby.



To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (12280)11/2/1998 1:14:00 PM
From: mrknowitall  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 67261
 
Michelle - your view of some relative "importance" of one woman over another is fashionably elitist drivel of the worst kind.

The statement "We all know anyone can be a mom" not only ridiculous on its face, but insulting. The fact is, almost any female can get pregnant and deliver a child, but that does not make her a mom.

A grossly simplistic claim like that shows how little respect you have for the role of a mother - working or otherwise.

But I guess that goes along with your ideas of seeing no harm in adultery and aborting live children at the moment of birth.

What a Clintonesque view of civilization -- Ah! That explains it!

Mr. K.



To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (12280)11/2/1998 10:03:00 PM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen  Respond to of 67261
 
Michelle, a female scientist is as important as she wants to be. And a mother is as valuable as she wants to be. I don't get this whole debate you're burdened with, because its not as if the government is handing out brownie buttons for "most valuable woman".

If you want to force society to collectively say, "hey look at her, aint she great", then you have other problems.



To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (12280)11/2/1998 11:41:00 PM
From: Johannes Pilch  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 67261
 
>I believe there are lots of working moms where the work they do is more significant than being a mom is.<

And this "belief" proves about as much, or perhaps just a bit less, than does mine.

There is a class of female the members of which invariably betray serious insecurity as to their own worth by incessantly touting their alleged abilities, ostensibly with the purpose of gaining significance among men, this, denying their sense of inferiority by attempting to lower the significance of the traditional mother. They are hurt, angry, often lonely females: feminist crusaders.

Of course the traditional mother knows there is no value to be found in wasting time arguing what to her is the self-evident truth of the her superiority to the feminist crusader. She is a wife and mother, and while she will perhaps engage in other pursuits, even running businesses and whatnot, these two roles are her primary concerns. A thousand years from now, the values of such a woman will likely yet course through this world, and the world will be a better place for it. On the other hand, the other females-- the part-time mother and the lonely feminist-- will simply have died, and their values and legacies will likely have been absorbed within all the meaninglessness and pathologies of the larger culture.

I understand your desire to escape being defined in terms of children or the ability to produce and nurture them; and I understand how one with your worldview might require men be equally defined in such a manner. Nevertheless this is quite impossible, as the definitions are based upon nature. Technology is nearly the second great equalizer of men and women, but were it in the future to be eliminated or severely decreased, we would then see clearly the truth of male/female relations. There is a true sexual dimorphism between men and women, and I believe current male/female relationships, though having been somewhat nebulized through the ages, are yet driven by this fact. Men are generally bigger and physically stronger than women, and therefore more suited to hunting, fighting and heavy work. Women, by their very physical natures are more suited to nurturing children and maintaining the home. They have the necessary plumbing and circuitry, if you will, to nurture a child unlike any man. From the time a child is conceived to the time it is truly self-sufficient, it is nourished by and bonded to its mother in ways no man can ever duplicate. It is nature that ties children so closely with women, and the woman who desires to escape this or place this role upon men is simply wishing for a reversal of her own nature and that of men.

Generally speaking, a woman can both hunt, fight and also nurture her children; but pound for pound, she cannot do the first two of these things as well as a man, let alone a man who devotes nearly all his energies to them. And pound for pound she cannot nurture and maintain a home as well as the woman who devotes nearly her full energies toward nurturing and maintaining a home. A man can nurture children, but pound for pound certainly not as well as a woman, especially not as well as a woman who trains the lion's share of her energies toward the nurture of the home. Can a part-time mother nurture as well as a full-time mother? Pound for pound, I think it plain to see that she cannot.

>In fact, I feel this constant chanting of "being a mom is the most important job in the world" blah blah blah is a dumbing down of the contributions that lots of women have made elsewhere.<

I "feel" this is the result of insecurity, and that no one is "dumbing down" anything. I "feel" being a mom is the most important job in the world because I, you, the homosexual, the heterosexual and every other kind of "sexual" came directly and literally out of a mom, and was held, fed-- breast to mouth-- hand to mouth-- and then hand to hand, by Mom. We were all comforted by her, confronted by her, lifted up and encouraged by her. We came crying and beaten, completely discouraged and afraid, and were washed, nourished and sent back into this weary world to fight and struggle with renewed strength, this, by Mom. It was Mom who loved us when we did not love anything but ourselves. Mom loved us when we did not love ourselves. It was Mom who patiently endured our many stupidities, loving us nevertheless. Mom even loved us when we hated her. We even told Mom we hated her, broke her poor ever-loving heart, made her life profoundly miserable, and she nevertheless kept coming back to us with her love. Mom disciplined us, taught us right from wrong, scolded us when we missed the mark, and completely broke our hearts when she cried. When we knew in our deepest beings we were nothing, Mom loved us just the same and told us we were special, eventually convincing us by the sheer purity and earnestness of her love that we were wrong about ourselves. We stood upright and walked confidently through the world because of Mom. And she always stood by us right up to the end. It is because of Mom that we today achieve, produce, and live happily. Mom made us do better, she made us who we are. Without her, our lives would be worthless. We could not have done a thing without dear old Mom. Mom has done it all, madam; and so God help us if we overlook her greatness, elevating other, relatively insignificant jobs, to her sublime position. What on earth can compare with Mom? Can anything? Can anything at all? Perhaps Dad. Perhaps.

Yes. You are doggone right, madam. Mom's achievements are simply better than those that women have made elsewhere; and no part-time mother can be like her. Mom is incomparably better than all others, even with her many imperfections. You are doggone right. Mom is better than the part-timer, and she is better than the female worker bee. The female scientist or astronaut is nothing but a worker, replaceable by one amongst hundreds if not thousands of men. The female scientist is nothing when compared with good old ever-constant Mom. Likewise, the female politician is just a female, and likely a stupid one at that (after all, she is a politician). But Mom makes the world kinder, brighter. Mom is always there, even in death, hovering over us like the sun. So you are doggone right, madam. Mom's achievements are, quite simply, the best and highest in this world.

>We all know any woman can be a mom.<

Any woman can be a scientist or politician, but no scientist or politician can be Mom.

>Take some female scientist for example, what I am hearing from people like you is that a housewife somewhere is actually as important as this person. I find that insulting.<

(grin) Then you must think what I have done here is tantamount to murder. You are much too easily insulted. Nevertheless, I cannot concern myself with this, since I have not here said anything to you that reason would inform us is insulting. Therefore, I will say it again. The female scientist is nothing but a dying tube in an old computer. She can be replaced by one amongst thousands of other tubes-- over the ages one amongst millions. On the other hand, one simply cannot replace Mom, and while one can write a check for a scientist, it is impossible to even begin to pay Mom what she is worth. Mom releases into the world incalculable power. Even your coveted "female scientist" comes from Mom.