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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: dougjn who wrote (12799)	11/4/1998 3:41:00 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

<<School prayer for all,even though some find the enforced conformity to >> Hype...No such proposal. <<majority's form of religious expression uncomfortable, or even deeply upsetting.>> The real issue. It seems contradictory though, because you would argue for legalizing drugs or for tolerance of public displays of effection between any consenting adults. At this juncture you can perform nearly any act in public without fear of being ridiculed, regardless of the discomfort caused to others, except a religious expression such as prayer.

To: dougjn who wrote (12799)	11/4/1998 3:43:00 PM
From: mrknowitall	Respond to of 67261

doug - Sorry, I wasn't clear - respect for the Bush family was what I meant. Mr. K.

To: dougjn who wrote (12799)	11/4/1998 9:19:00 PM
From: Johannes Pilch	Respond to of 67261

>The vast majority of those who support abortion rights believe that strong families are important, for example.< Mere belief and justifying belief with action are quite different matters. The murder of one's child is simply not a family value. >What the "respect for the family" agenda of the religious right really amounts to is advocating the use of coercive state power to enforce conformity for deeply personal choices made at the most intimate, family level, upon everyone.E.g., no abortion rights for any, because they offend the religious beliefs of some.< Religious conservatives merely want the law to reflex what they consider basic truth. Just as pre-civil war anti-slavery advocates lobbied the government to follow the codified truth that all humans are created equal, pro-life advocates now lobby the government so that it might follow the codified truth that all humans have the right to life. Pro-abortion supporters are simply the slave owning advocates of the pre-civil war south. >Not gay rights for any, for the same reason.< This is silly. Many religious conservatives believe homsoexuals should have the same rights as anyone, but that their rights should be granted as a component of their citizenship and not as a component of their sexual behaviour. Because the sexual relationship refers to the organic identity of the human person, and because many religious conservatives believe homosexuality is a direct and profound contradiction of human identity as well as an abomination to their God, they fear they would be forced by law to support and even promote the abomination, should it be protected by law. If there were a way homosexual behaviour could be protected while allowing the religious conservative freedom not to have his home and society influenced by it, then I dare say the religious conservative would be silent on the matter. >Force out of office a President for a past sexual affair, even those his wife has decided to put it behind her and continue to support her husband.< This is not a 'deeply personal choice made at the most intimate, family level'. The desire to force the President out of office for many religious conservatives stems from their desire not to be represented by a man who they are convinced is unfit to represent them. It is a matter of integrity. I could not possibly teach my children respect for law, honor, integrity and love of justice and then wink at a President whose actions nullify all these things. I am compelled by my worldview to declare the President unfit to represent me, and if I and many like me can by law and the electoral system make the declaration, this is only fit and proper. Just as those who care not at all about being represented by an adulterous liar can use the system to declare their position, those of us who reject such liars as our representatives can and should do the same. >School prayer for all, even though some find the enforced conformity to majority's form of religious expression uncomfortable, or even deeply upsetting.< Many religious conservatives merely want their children to have the opportunity to pray, the opportunity for their children, during school hours, to pray to the God of their choice. >Now when family rights are about things like a higher dependent deduction, that's another matter, and consensus can often be achieved. But when it amounts to forced conformity with a RR social agenda, that's another matter entirely.< The problem here is made clear when religious conservatives fight to ban what is the clear murder of human beings, so called Partial Birth Abortion. Here we see the religious conservative wants not to have his society support the murder of children, and yet the society sits idly by in tacit support of this barbarism, even championing the liberal President who made it all possible.