Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Technology Stocks : INPR - Inprise to Borland (BORL) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TChai who wrote (1571)	11/6/1998 9:02:00 AM
From: i-node	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 5102

From little that I've seen of Java, IMHO there's great potential. One that is much bigger than C++ has or will ever be. The bottom line is that C++ is simply too complex which translates into low productivity. I think the most important statement in your message is the first line ... "From little that I've seen of Java". What, maybe three years ago, we had Rod over here telling us that Java would replace all languages within in a couple of years. Still, WHERE'S THE JAVA? C++ is NOT too complex. With reasonable tools (C++ Builder is one) C++ is quite simple -- my 14 year old has learned it quite well as his first language. I can assure you, Microsoft can turn Java into something amazingly comples. The skepticism I hear about Java is the same I heard when C++ first came out. Even the hardcore C programmers questioned it. I'm not sure about this. I know I did my first c++ project the same year I heard of the language. The transition from c to c++ was a much different task than that of moving from c/c++ to Java -- in particular, you had thousands of programmers who had no concept of object oriented programming (I was one), who cut their teeth on procedural languages, who suddenly had to start thinking in a radically different manner. While there is an aspect of this in the c++ to Java move, I don't think it should be as much of a problem. Translated: If Java were ready, you'd be seeing mucho apps out there now. But even now, years after its introduction, you see only a couple. Java was over hyped initially, but it's alive and well and will be THE programming language in less than 5 years. We've heard this before. Three years ago, Java would be THE programming language in three years. The reality is that it will probably be THE language for certain tasks, but there is still a great deal of stuff that can bring Java down to a core use of developing embedded systems and similar tasks. For example, you could have someone come along a develop a c++ or delphi that runs on a JVM. Poof! The end of Java. OTOH, Java could make it. But MSFT is going to fight it becoming a universal language, and they are influential. Developers have to be careful when they make investments in code. There are certain applications for which Java is perfect; I expect those to flourish. But people will be careful not to cram Java into places where it doesn't belong. In my view.

To: TChai who wrote (1571)	11/6/1998 1:08:00 PM
From: David R	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 5102

RE: The bottom line is that C++ is simply too complex which translates into low productivity. Java is a complex programming language as well, and only competent OO programmers will be able to fully realize the benefits of Java. The real difference is that, at the expense of programming freedom, Java eliminates certain abilities that C++ offers. The upside is that these abilities (such as pointers) are also the root of most hard-to-find C++ bugs. The WORA promise of Java vm seems to be where most of the hype has been thus far (although it is still a possibility). Thus, Java really is just a language (at least for the time). IMO The real strength of Java, is the bean (pun intended). Also, C++ builder hides much of the complexity of the language from developers, much like VB does. Thus, developing a high performance app in C++ builder is probably no more or less difficult than JBuilder. My point is not to start a language war. C++ is the most widely used language today, and will have that distinction for a good while. Java is not necessarily easier to use. INPR needs to have consistent tools across all of its language products. It should be just as easy to develop a distributed enterprise app in JBuilder, C++ BUilder, or Delphi.

To: TChai who wrote (1571)	11/11/1998 2:58:00 AM
From: Kashish King	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 5102

The Devil You Know The bottom line is that C++ is simply too complex which translates into low productivity. Becoming proficient with C++ takes a deliberate effort. Too often, we confuse easy-to-use with easy-to-learn and the short-term benefits of learning are elevated over the long-term benefits of using the right tools operated by people with the right skills. C++ thrives and with good reason. Millions of people use C++ day in and day out without as much as glancing at a C++ syntax manual. Low Productivity It's not C++ syntax that causes this, it's the lack of prefabricated components and hard-wired design patterns which are available to you in systems like Java with Java Beans or Visual Basic with COM. There are a few issues working against C++ in terms of creating interactive development tools since it's a compiled language. On top of that, it should come as no surprise that Microsoft has built its component model around Visual Basic at the expense of C++ which they do not control. Recommended Tools: 1. Form-based business applications: Visual Basic 2. Distributed, web-based applications: Visual Cafe (Symantec) 3. Shrink-wrapped tool, applications and components: Visual C++ NOTE: Don't use Inprise tools for anything, they're not fit to be given to alpha testers let alone developers with real products to build. ...I had found Pascal's type system worse than useless, a straightjacket that caused more problems than it solved... Bjarne Stroustrup, "Inventor" of C++