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To: Gerald R. Lampton who wrote (21760)	11/24/1998 11:14:00 PM
From: Gerald R. Lampton	Respond to of 24154

Oh, and I almost forgot: On the use of planning to achieve socialistic and other ends: F.A. Hayek, Socialism and War: Essays, Documents, Reviews (10 Collected Works of F.A. Hayek) 61-62 (1997)

To: Gerald R. Lampton who wrote (21760)	11/25/1998 2:48:00 PM
From: Andy Thomas	Respond to of 24154

Hi Gerald, I'm with you on this one. The "liberals" of today are nothing like the liberals of 200 years ago. They have stolen the word and changed its meaning, much like the word "gay" has been twisted. FWIW Andy

To: Gerald R. Lampton who wrote (21760)	11/25/1998 10:25:00 PM
From: Charles Hughes	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 24154

>>> You are going need to at least refer to original references to get this attempt across.<<< Thanks, that was fast. However, an author saying that "American socialists' appropriated a term is hardly proof nor near to meaningful. Especially as I have been in that scene and personally know this to be wrong. (Did they kill the majority of 'real' liberals as well? :-) Most real socialists of my acquaintance completely disdain the term liberal and will not apply it to themselves. Socialists in the black power movement of the 1960s, for instance, referred to liberals in general as 'those candy-ass liberals' (forgive the image, I am just quoting here folks, don't call the SI cops please!). Among socialists, middle of the road liberalism has no cache. Nor did they ever wish to apply the term to themselves, abhorring Humphrey and his crowd as they did. (I'd say do, but I don't think there are more than one or two million real socialists still alive in the US.) This is just more republican red baiting, hoping somebody out there still gives a damn what the repubs have to say about their enemies. As far as I can tell, even the very far right could care less what the republicans have to say about anyone else these days. The legacy of willie-gate and years of bitter accusations. It is now standard in election mathematics that you try to move your opponent somehow away from center in the public imagination. Normally this involves exaggeration or worse things. Cheers, Chaz