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To: Shafik Habal who wrote (6039)	12/19/1998 12:34:00 AM
From: funk	Respond to of 12617

To: Shafik Habal who wrote (6039)	12/19/1998 8:16:00 AM
From: funk	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 12617

OK, I agree with 95% of your post. Here is my problem, I front run ARCA every chance I get. Because I am slow and stupid, I only get to do this perhaps once a day. Nevertheless I do in fact find and exploit numerous opportunities to front run ARCA with my tiny grabs. SO, If any idiot can front run ARCA with out even trying too hard at it, do you think it is possible that this is a widespread phenomenon? ______________________________________________________________________ When I hit the best offer and all three MM's just pull off without any prints because the stock is about to smoke and they are already short, is that ARCA not working? If you want to see futility just check out the MBTrading thread, no one posting over there is a client and they are all trying to push off the responsibility of there own failures on something else. ______________________________________________________________________ Just to be crystal clear about something: I front run ARCA every chance I get. You think I am the only one? happy holidays funk

To: Shafik Habal who wrote (6039)	12/19/1998 9:48:00 AM
From: funk	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 12617

I am only as good as my next trade, so with that in mind, I have to reiterate, I am an MB Trading client, wrapping up my 12th month with them. I use ARCA and ISLD on a daily basis - mostly ISLD. I never ever ever use a market order. I make mistakes a-plenty. It took time to learn these routing tools. I am still learning stuff all the time. Here is how I used ARCA and ISLD together, yesterday, to get what I wanted: Yesterday, I wanted to get short in a name that had just lost the whole number. It traded up and down through the even number a couple times and it was a low risk short, imo. Ok the bid was on an up tick and it was an MM showing 15 7/8 200 shares. The offer was loaded up pretty good as I wasn't the only dope trying to get short, ISLD and ARCA were offering at 15/16 as well as NITE and at least one other MM. So, If I join ISLD or use ARCA on the offer what are my chances of getting filled? I am thinking at this particular price and time about zero. Now the BID is an up tick, but I cannot use ISLD at that price unless I cross another ISLD. Well funny thing is, no one wants to especially buy this name right here. I want in, so here is what i do. I hit the BID with ARCA for 1000 shares. As soon as that goes live I am on the button ready to follow on with ISLD. Sure enough the MM's gets me short the 200 shares he was bidding disappears. I hit the ISLD button and in less than a second it is live 1000 shares at 7/8. Remember, its the quick and the dead. Now the best bid is 13/16 on a down tick. The bid is a few MM's at 13/16 and my ISLD and ARCA offers @ 7/8. Within 2 seconds I am joined by more ISLD liquidity. This is ideal as I have a very liquid ECN at the best offer and as other ISLD offers come down from 15/16 I have comfort in knowing I get my short before they do. I get what I want, some one crosses my ISLD offer and I am short 1200 shares. That seems like plenty and I cancel the ARCA offer. Why rush to cancel the ARCA offer though? I don't rush, I take plenty of time at it. By the time I get around to it the 7/8 offer builds up and looks plentiful. The bid erodes. Uhuh that was two commissions, cost of doing business, at least when I exit I can cover all 1200 on one trade. By the way, the trade was a wash, I managed to cover my costs, but It did not turn out as hoped. Nevertheless, it was a great trade, imo, I executed a plan, it failed, I got out and moved on. NEXT! funk

To: Shafik Habal who wrote (6039)	12/19/1998 12:09:00 PM
From: TFF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 12617

How To Evaluate Your Broker Most large discount brokers your order is routed to one of the largest market makers in the country to be executed along with 100,000's of orders from other firms. NASDAQ Order handling rules protect you under normal conditions, but if it is at the open, after a halt or is an IPO the market maker has TOTAL discretion as to when he executes the order. Typically the market maker will not execute limit orders until he has completed all executing all market orders. Then end result being that you either get: 1) A terrible fill in a volatile market if you have placed a MARKET ORDER. or, 2) No fill until many minutes or even hours after you have entered your order with your broker if you entered a LIMIT ORDER. Sometimes brokers will not confirm if you have a fill or not for days in peak volume periods! Read the 98-78 bulletin "NASD Clarifies Operation Of The Limit Order Protection Rule During Unusual Market Conditions" to understand how your broker is protected from taking reponsibilty for bad execution at the open,IPO's and after halts: nasdr.com How do I evaluate my broker? Make sure know what you want from your broker. Good/fast executions, immediate confirmations, reliable data and software, great client service, competitive fees, good website, excellent reporting, good short list, and access to all execution systems. Make sure the broker is reputable and has a good capital base behind it. There are two basic kinds of brokers: Brokers who receive orders by direct order entry software and/or those which receive orders via phone. Brokers Offering Direct Order Entry Software Make sure you know your needs before looking at these brokers. They are meant specifically for active traders who are knowledgeable about the ins and outs of trading.Currently Real Tick III dominates the landscape and is very flexible and is offered by many firms including MB Trading,JPR Capital, etc. Also CyberTrader which is offered by CyberBroker and some other firms is widely used. A step below this are the browser based systems such as those offered by Datek,Etrade,Web Street,Waterhouse,Discover, etc. Unfortunately these systems have failed to be reliable during peak market hours and combined with current NASDAQ Order Handling Rules make them useless for short term trading or any other trading for that matter. Phone Based Brokers Using the phone eliminates the worry of reliability of direct order entry and allows you to concentrate on the market and is probably most suitable for the majority of people. The key issue here is the quality of execution you receive and how efficient the firm is at answering the phone and transmitting orders. Phone based brokers should answer your calls within 2 rings and NEVER put you on hold for longer than 1 minute. Phone based brokers should have multiple execution systems available to them and should not be routing all of their NASDAQ orders to ther market makers for execution(sometimes refered to as payment for order flow) There are very few quality phone based firms around so look hard. Yamner Inc. is one. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Where do I find a list of brokers who meet the criteria you suggest to evaluate my broker?: The Final Frontier Links Subject 20613 ----------------------------------------------------------------