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Pastimes : Impeachment=" Insult to all Voters" -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (315)	12/21/1998 12:06:00 PM
From: R. Martenson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2390

Agree 100%, now how do we bring everyone together in an honest debate that ends with the Country winning and more than two people standing? ( hope you read my previous posts, I was trying to reflect that we all are displaying a bit of 'fanaticism' in our discourse)

To: The Philosopher who wrote (315)	12/21/1998 12:43:00 PM
From: R. Martenson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2390

"An attack on the integrity of testimony in a legal proceeding is an attack on our freedoms, our very way of life. This is not hyperbole, it is fact." It is fact but ALSO hyperbole. I too come from a severe background of ethics and code. I am a grad of the USAF Academy where were took an oath not to lie, cheat, or steal nor TOLERATE ANYONE amoung us who did. I have seen entire football teams removed from one of the finest educational institutions on the planet for tolerating lying and not even have commited it. This is not better or worse than the code of law, but it is an absolute that does not fit well in a world run by imperfect judgment. Some how, some way, you and I and others who have solid foundations in ethics and oaths, must derive a way where those whose lives are run by purely economics and survival can come to respect the abstract ideals we both hold dear. We cannot shoot all the liars, nor can we free all the rapists. We have to come to a middle ground of understanding where the law "works" and ethics rule. If we don't we either become an Iran or a Nigeria. I hear the argument by lawyers that lying in a court will collapse the legal system and turn us into the dark ages. It hasn't, it won't, and it is hyperbole to say so. It is lack of judgement and proportionality that will doom us, not the simple breaking of an absolute. You have seen clients lie...you have defended clients that lie...yet you still have your moral ethics intact. It is the confidentialiity of those moral and ethical lapses that protects you and others from self destructing. We have to repair 'some' measure of confidentiality in life to the political process or we will self destruct the crown jewel of a free people.