Here's the transcript from tonight's Jim Lehrer interview with the SS chief. If all agencies and companies had started as early as the SSA and had worked as hard, I wuld not ve the overal level of concern I do at this point.
JIM LEHRER: And with me now is the
commissioner of the Social Security
Administration, Kenneth Apfel.
Mr. Commissioner, welcome.
KENNETH APFEL, Commissioner,
Social Security Administration: Great to
be here.
JIM LEHRER: When did you all get onto this problem?
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First identified .
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KENNETH APFEL: This problem was first identified 10 years ago within
Social Security -- to put some perspective on how long we've been working
on this activity - really heavy activity has been going on for almost half a
decade now.
JIM LEHRER: How did you get onto it?
KENNETH APFEL: Well, basically, the
first thing you have to do is identify the
number of software lines that you have
to take a look at. We had to look at over
35 million lines, over 300 computer
systems that we have, so it's first
identifying the different computer
systems that had to be evaluated, ranking
in terms of priority how to do that, try to
- if there were any interconnections with
other organizations, determine what they are and how they could affect
your systems, develop contingency plans, it's been a long-term effort, a lot
of work, a lot of people spent a lot of time on this.
JIM LEHRER: But back to - if you say you - and I read this today - that
your administration found out about this - just started being concerned
about it in 1989, when we just saw on Paul Solman's piece, Con-Ed didn't
even get on to it until 1994, Bell Atlantic right about the same time. What
happened at the Social Security Administration to put you so far ahead,
even if other agencies of government as well?
KENNETH APFEL: Well, we have a long-term responsibility for the
American public. Needless to say, we have 48 million Americans who rely
on that check month after month, and we need to be able to plan well in
advance, so that someone would say that it's fifty-nine or sixty, coming into
our offices, looking about retirement in 62 or maybe at age 65, we needed
to be able to get those systems up and ready for that person years in
advance. So some of our systems had to be done and ready two and three
and four years ago, so - because of the kind of businesses that we're in,
which is providing this wonderful service to the American public, we had to
be ready well in advance for some of our activities.
JIM LEHRER: So -
KENNETH APFEL: And we had to start early.
JIM LEHRER: But in the process - but
the story I read today was that somebody
in the process of getting ready not for
the year 2000 problem but just getting
ready normally came across this
problem, am I correct, that somebody in
one of your field offices who was
putting all these things together said, my
goodness, and went through and
discovered those double digits, and went to 1900 and realized and spread
the word within the agency. Did I read the story wrong?
KENNETH APFEL: That's right. Our systems people identified it and
said, hey, we've got to spend some time here - we have to put aside other
priorities and spend millions of dollars and a lot of work hours to resolve
this issue, and it started many, many years ago, so that's what they did.
All these lines.
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JIM LEHRER: Now, when you say they went through all these lines, I
mean, how was that done? Who did that and what were they looking for?
KENNETH APFEL: Well, about 700 of
our programmers spent time going
through once the systems had been
identified to go through each of those
individual lines and to make the changes
that are necessary. This is not rocket
science; this is not incredibly hard work
to do, but it is time consuming work,
because there are so many lines involved
- within Social Security I said about 35 million lines.
JIM LEHRER: And that means 35 million lines had to be checked or 35
million lines had to be changed in some way?
KENNETH APFEL: Checked and changed in most cases.
JIM LEHRER: And changed with new computer chips, right?
KENNETH APFEL: That's right - or the new system so the identification
could be made in the year 2000 that it really was 2000 and it wasn't 1900.
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A catastrophic view.
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JIM LEHRER: Now, just give us - give
us a catastrophic view of what would
have happened had you not been able to
get a head start on this and you had not
been able to correct it. What would have
happened on the year 2000, January 1st?
KENNETH APFEL: Well, people would
have come in to say retire, and we would
- our computers would have read their
retirement date or their date of birth not as - the retirement date not as 2000
but as 1900, so the system would not have worked. We wouldn't have been
able to calculate their future benefits; we would not have been able to
calculate any of the information that was necessary to determine them to
get the payments that they are legally due.
JIM LEHRER: So the system would have collapsed?
KENNETH APFEL: It would not have
worked, so that's why we spent the time
that was necessary because, as I said, 48
million Americans rely on that Social
Security check month after month after
month, so we had to make sure that they
were going to be able to continue to
receive it, and they will.
JIM LEHRER: Now, is there a Social Security Administration way to do
this that could be transferred say to IRS or to the Sammy Sue Bus
Company or anything like that, or is it just - as you say - it's not a special
system - it's just hard work, or what?
KENNETH APFEL: Well, I think there are lessons for other agencies and
for other organizations as to how to first establish what your systems are;
two, where the lines are; three, what your connections are to other
organizations, say the banking community, etcetera, that we went through,
and we've been working with other federal agencies to help other agencies
address this issue, but, again, each organization is unique, and it is different,
so there is a need to go in and look at each one of those systems
independently and determine how to act.
JIM LEHRER: So you don't have a magic bullet that you gave to the
president today that he can give to everybody else?
KENNETH APFEL: There is no magic bullet beyond hard work and
commitment throughout the agency to make this a priority for the
American public.
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Everything will not be fixed.
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JIM LEHRER: Now, the president said
with great certainty that your - your
administration is not going to have a
problem. Why are you so sure of this?
Why are you and the president so sure
of this?
KENNETH APFEL: Well, we
conducted all of the activities that were
necessary. We then had an independent
consultant in to validate that it would work, and we actually tested it to
make sure - let's go forward one year in the future - will the computers read
correctly what is going on - and those independent validators looked at our
systems and the Treasury systems that are necessary together - to work
together - and the validation was made, so we are 100 percent certain that
we are ready.
JIM LEHRER: Now, do you have a similar problem that Bell Atlantic has,
that you are tied into other systems, that other systems could in some way
taint yours if they're not also fixed?
KENNETH APFEL: We are in good shape. Most of our systems are
independent; they're just ours. One of the areas that we're still working on
is with the banking community because about ¾ of all Social Security
checks are electronically transferred to accounts, so we're working heavily
with the banking community and they're way ahead of this issue too. The
banking community spent a lot of good time on this to make sure that
those checks will be deposited appropriately a year from now.
JIM LEHRER: Now based on your experience at Social Security - and
you saw the piece that Paul Solman just had - where do you come down in
general terms now? You're okay. Everything is fine at Social Security. How
do you feel about the rest of the world on January 1st, the year 2000?
KENNETH APFEL: Well, there's a lot
of work that has to be done. There's - the
president said to us sometime ago for
each federal agency let's get on with us,
let's make this a priority for the
American public. There's been a lot of
work throughout the federal levels, at the
state and local, government level, and
now with the private sector, and different
industries, the banking industry, the
electronics industry, the telecommunications industry. We're going to have
some problems out there. There's no doubt. Everything will not be fixed by
the year 2000. I think the main activities are going to be resolved. I know
that the commitments that we've made within Social Security have made it
resolved. We're seeing that now throughout many other parts of the
government and also through other industrial sectors.
JIM LEHRER: All right. Mr. Commissioner, thank you very much.
KENNETH APFEL: Great to be here. |
