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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (27416)	12/29/1998 7:43:00 PM
From: Jacques Chitte	Respond to of 108807

>Like a hedge fund for salvation.< (ok, I'm in this now...) An extraordinarily expensive hedge fund imho - and kinda like shorting MSFT at IPO if it ain't so. The trouble is that Christianity is a religion which says: Do thus. Think thus. Believe thus. It is a religion of definite (but imperfectly defined - thus schism upon schism) commandments. Not simply proscriptions of what's wrong, but codifications of what's right. About the really big things in our short, turbulent lives. Sex. Money. Food. War. Love. Hate. This really, really narrows the range of experiences I'm permitted - and worst of all there are no provisions for New Things. LSD. Cloning. Intelligent aliens. And what is held up as the reward for conforming to this astounding existential straitjacket? Nothing in the here and now - but the fate of our Eternal (and very much awakke and subject to pain!!) Souls. Heavy. I haven't parsed out the logical faultlines in all this. Others before me have done so much better than I can. But I know they're there - and I suspect that they show up anytime anyone tries to shoehorn Reality into something a person can conceive, let alone explain. I take my stand boldly&publicly. I will not be blackmailed by a phantom God who threatens me with damnation or some abstraction. If he wants my allegiance, He'll have to put the big smite on me here in normal space. Otherwise, He'll just have to put up with me calling'em as I see'm. The Universe is too big, wondrous and beautiful a place for me to put on the opaque glasses of any One Truth.

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (27416)	12/29/1998 11:48:00 PM
From: nihil	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Bob, you have to try harder. The old "faith as an insurance policy" argument (of Pascal and others) has rarely convinced, and never, as far as I know, paid off. If it turns out fraudulent, who do we sue? Who has such powerful self-control as can impose on himself a particular faith? "Another curious argument of Pascal's is that which is known as the argument of the wager ["Pascal's Wager"]. God exists or He does not exist, and we must of necessity lay odds for or against Him. If I wager for and God is -- infinite gain; If I wager for and God is not -- no loss. If I wager against and God is -- infinite loss; If I wager against and God is not -- neither loss nor gain." --The Catholic Encyclopaedia "Pascal" Pascal as a mere boy was a great mathematician and invented the first real mechanical calculator from which, eventually, the computer that has changed all of our lives has involved. I believe he had a nervous breakdown, became hyper-religious, wrote some embarrassingly cowardly philosophy (Pensees) and shivered his way in torment ("I am terrified by the vastness of those empty spaces [the night sky]) to early death (aetat 39). I do not mock his life, but wish that he had remained sane enough to complete his great and needed scientific work. He could have sped us along our way. As it is, he merely confused those pitiful nuns at Port Royal with his "Provincial Letters" and propelled them to their destruction by the church and state. ... the "Provinciales" of Pascal only increased. Port- Royal, having refused to subscribe to the formulary drawn up by the Assembly of the Clergy in 1657, all the petites écoles were successively closed, the novices were driven out from the abbey, and the confessors expelled. But in vain; the doctors, even the Archbishop of Paris, Hardouin de Péréfixe, endeavoured by their learning and their patience to bring the recalcitrants to reason. "They are as pure as angels", said the latter, "but proud as demons." Only a few consented to sign; the more obstinate were finally sent to the country or dispersed in different communities. In 1666 the director, Lemaître de Lacy, was imprisoned in the Bastille. At length, after interminable negotiations, in 1669, what was called "The Peace of the Church" was signed; Port-Royal became again for some years an intellectual and religious centre, shining on all that was most intelligent and noble in the city and at the Court. But the fire was smouldering beneath the ashes. In 1670 Arnauld was obliged to fly to the Low Countries, and Louis XIV, who had begun to suspect and hate the stubborn Port-Royal community, resolved to subdue them. In 1702 the quarrel broke out anew on the condemnation by the Sorbonne of a celebrated "case of conscience". In 1704 Port-Royal des Champs (Port-Royal of the Fields) was suppressed by a Bull of Clement IX. In 1709 the last twenty-five nuns were expelled by the public authorities. Finally, in 1710, to blot out all traces of the centre of revolt, the buildings of Port-Royal were razed, the site of the chapel turned into a marsh, and even the ashes of the dead were dispersed. Port-Royal was destroyed, but its spirit lived on, especially in the Parliament and the University, and during almost all the eighteenth century France was distracted by the ever-recurring struggle between its heirs and its adversaries. (See JANSENIUS AND JANSENISM.) -- The Catholic Encyclopaedia "Port-Royal

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (27416)	1/2/1999 12:39:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Bob, I'm still wondering if you, or anyone else, knows the answer to the question--what was Jesus' actual name? According to this encyclopedia article Jesus is a Greek word. But what name was Jesus born with? This is from an encyclopedia article I found at askjeeves.com, which is a very good super search engine, incidentally. Jesus 1st-cent. Jewish teacher and prophet; in Christian belief, the Son of God, the second person of the TRINITY. The name Jesus is Greek for the Hebrew Joshua, a name meaning Savior; Christ is the Greek word for the Hebrew Messiah, meaning Anointed. Traditional CHRISTIANITY says Jesus was God made man, wholly divine, wholly human; he was born to MARY, a virgin, and died to atone for humanity's sins; his resurrection from the dead provides man's hope for salvation. The principal sources for his life are the four Gospels of MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, and JOHN. There are also several brief references to Jesus in non-Christian sources, e.g., TACITUS. According to the Gospels, Jesus was born a Jew in Bethlehem to Mary, wife of Joseph, a carpenter of Nazareth. His date of birth is now reckoned have been between 8 B.C. and 4 B.C. When he was about 30, Jesus began a public ministry as a preacher, teacher, and healer. His activity was centered around Galilee, and he gathered a small band of disciples. Jesus preached the coming of the Kingdom of God, often in PARABLES, and called on his hearers to repent. The Gospels also describe miracles he performed. His uncompromising moral demands on his hearers, his repeated attacks on the Pharisees (see JEWS) and scribes, and his sympathy for social outcasts and the oppressed kindled popular enthusiasm. In the third year of his mission, while in Jerusalem for Passover, he was betrayed to the authorities by one of his companions, JUDAS ISCARIOT. After sharing the LAST SUPPER (a Passover seder) with his disciples, he was arrested. The Gospels indicate that he was interrogated by Jewish authorities and handed over to the Romans, who crucified him, perhaps as an agitator. On the third day, his tomb was found empty, and an angel (or a man) announced that he had risen from the dead. According to the Gospels, Jesus later appeared to several of his disciples, and after 40 days he ascended into heaven. In Islam, Jesus is highly regarded as a prophet who restated divine religion, and Hindus acknowledge him as an avatar. The Concise Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, Third Edition Copyright © 1994, Columbia University Press.