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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rambi who wrote (27698)	1/5/1999 10:08:00 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I was trying to address Del's statement that he wished people would "stop believing in myths as if they were real." I think make believe, or stories, have a reality as stories (so they ARE real, just not real in the way a believer of a religion might think a religion is real)- that was my first point. I feel like I am rambling tonight- so I am not sure I am putting this down clearly. I agree with you that the people who believe in religions tend to believe they are the literal truth, and thus, obviously would not classify their belief system as myth. As for Male centered myths- if a society makes its own myths as a mirror of society than it makes sense that most societies would have male Gods. Rome, Greece, Europe, the Norse, India- all societies where men have had historic power over women. I wonder what kind of Gods matriarchal societies have? I know some South Sea Island societies were matriarchal but I know nothing of their religions. So I agree women have been left out of Greco-Roman, Norse and Christian myths. (And being the womb for the deity does NOT count). Athena is great- but she was born of a MAN. Interesting, isn't it? As if wisdom cannot be born of woman. THAT is an interesting window into the mind of the myth makers.

To: Rambi who wrote (27698)	1/5/1999 10:59:00 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Penni, Of course, writing has always been much more difficult for women than men anyway I'm curious; how so? Do you mean the writing itself, or actually earning a living out of the writing, which I don't think has ever been easy for anyone. When people invented our myths, did they sit down to invent a myth, or did they just try to tell a story? Were the myths that lasted the only ones that were told, or just the ones people liked? And a lot of other stuff which I won't go into, lest I get even less coherent than usual.... Steve

To: Rambi who wrote (27698)	1/5/1999 11:28:00 PM
From: JF Quinnelly	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

A good myth is anything by Campbell. Tolkien, of Lord of the Rings, described christianity as a myth that happens to be true. Now, a little tidbit for CGB's benefit from Paul Johnson's A History of Christianity, pg 45: Certainly gnostic sects were spreading at the same time as Christian ones; both were part of the general religious osmosis. Gnostics had two central preoccupations: belief in a dual world of good and evil and belief in the existence of a secret code of truth, transmitted by word of mouth or by arcane writings. Gnosticism is a 'knowledge' religion ~that is what the word means~ which claims to have an inner explanation of life. Thus it was, and indeed still is, a spiritual parasite which used other religions as a 'carrier'. Christianity fitted into this role very well....gnostic groups seized on bits of Christianity, but tended to cut it off from its historical origins. They were Hellenizing it, as they had Hellenized other oriental cults (often amalgamating the results). Their ethics varied to taste: sometimes they were ultra-puritan, sometimes orgiastic... Paul fought hard against gnosticism, recognizing that it might cannibalize Christianity and destroy it. At Corinth he came across well-educated Christians who had reduced Jesus to myth. Among the Collosians he found Christians who worshipped intermediate spirits and angels. Gnosticism was hard to combat because it was hydra-headed and always changing. Of course, all the sects had their own codes and most hated each other. Some conflated the cosmogony of Plato with the story of Adam and Eve, and interpreted it in various ways: thus the Ophites worshipped serpents, arguing that the serpent had triumphed over God; so they cursed Jesus in their liturgy. Some accepted Christian redemption, but ruled put Jesus as redeemer: the Samaritans preferred Simon Magus, others Hercules. hmmm... "a spiritual parasite"... I remember someone else explaining gnosticism in similar words, I wonder who that was....