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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Neocon who wrote (32431)2/6/1999 1:40:00 AM
From: Jack Be Quick  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 67261
 
<<The attitude was well summed- up by Bill Kristol, who said that we should mostly wait for him to fail on his own.>>

May be, but if you are Rush Limbaugh, Oliver "The Truth and Nothing But the Truth" North, Gordon Liddy, Chris Mathews, et al, how do you fill up an hour or two a day with waiting for him to fail on his own? Personally, I think it would be kind of fun to elect a Republican pres. in 2000, and give Hillary Clinton, James Carville, Monica Lewinsky, Sid Blumenthal and Vernon Jordan each political talk shows.

Whatever attitude Bill Kristol might have "summed-up" for you at the time, I believe that a pretty strong case can be made that Bill Clinton doomed his presidency almost immediately with his incredibly ill-timed gays in the military initiative. As the very 1st initiative of the newly elected it's-the-economy-stupid "centrist" Democrat, this probably ranks high on the all-time stupid list. Ironically, they probably thought it would be no big deal at the time.

Also, I think I recall that there was some controversy about health care reform back then. Something about the Clinton administration wanting to address what had become routine double digit annual increases in health care costs; I vaguely recall that this health care reform thing seemed to galvanize political opposition to Clinton.

Anyway, I think it is a bit of an exaggeration to say that President Clinton has never been important enough politically to generate opposition from the coalition of political forces in this country known collectively as the "right-wing". But, then again, maybe you're right. Interesting post, thanks.



To: Neocon who wrote (32431)2/6/1999 2:28:00 AM
From: Daniel Schuh  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 67261
 
No grand conspiracy, Neocon, just a small circle of friends. Back to nytimes.com .

Another friend of Marcus also briefly considered assisting the Jones lawyers.

In June 1994, Rosenzweig, a lawyer at a small law firm in Washington, with experience working in the Justice Department, expressed interest in doing legal work on behalf of Ms. Jones, but he did none, lawyers involved in the case said.

Although the billing records show communication between Porter and the Jones lawyers from 1994 to 1997, he denied in a written statement last fall doing legal work for Ms. Jones.

Because Porter is a partner at the firm where Starr worked until he took a leave of absence last August, any role played by Porter in the Jones case could have posed a conflict of interest for Starr once he became independent counsel. Starr has said he did not discuss the Jones case with Porter.

Starr has acknowledged contacts with Davis, specifically six telephone discussions the two had in 1994, before Starr became independent counsel. In fact, Starr has been criticized for not disclosing the phone conversations to Attorney General Janet Reno when he was seeking to expand his investigation to the Lewinsky matter. Starr has said it did not occur to him to mention the conversations because he did not do work on the Jones case and simply offered his publicly stated position on a point of constitutional law that Presidents are not immune from civil lawsuits.


Funny, I missed that part. Porter, a partner in Starr's firm, worked with Smith in planting the (false, if Jones is to be believed) Arkansas trooper story that traumatized guileless Paula so. Starr actually talked to front-man Davis, 6 times, while partner Porter was working behind the scenes with him. But I'm sure Starr never talked to partner Porter about the matter. Nope. It never would have occurred to either of those two. Never would have occurred to Starr that a partner of his working behind the scenes to generate the Jones lawsuit might possibly present conflict of interest problems either. Nope, impossible for someone with Starr's integrity.

In November 1997, Rosenzweig went to work as a prosecutor in Starr's office. And from November to January, Rosenzweig spoke several times by telephone with Marcus and discussed the Jones case, a lawyer with knowledge of the conversations said. But Bakaly, a spokesman for Starr, said that Rosenzweig did not tell any of his colleagues about what he learned about developments in the Jones case.

By this time, Mrs. Tripp was cooperating with the Jones lawyers. She was also taping her conversations with Ms. Lewinsky, which her friend, Lucianne Goldberg, a Manhattan literary agent, had incorrectly assured her was legal. In December, Mrs. Tripp became frantic that she might be prosecuted because such taping is illegal in Maryland, where Mrs. Tripp lives. Mrs. Tripp and Ms. Goldberg thought of a possible solution: perhaps she could receive immunity from prosecution from Starr.

Ms. Goldberg called Smith, the Chicago financier, and Porter for advice on how Mrs. Tripp might approach Starr. In a teleconference during the first week of January 1998, Ms. Goldberg talked to Porter and Marcus. Meanwhile, Marcus sought new lawyers for Mrs. Tripp. Conway suggested an old friend, James Moody, a Washington lawyer and fellow Federalist Society member, whom Mrs. Tripp retained.

Because he was Starr's former law partner, Porter did not want to be the first one to call the independent counsel's office on behalf of Mrs. Tripp. So Marcus made the call to Rosenzweig.


Funny how it all started out with Smith and Porter planting the false Arkansas trooper story with Brock, and ended with Goldberg going to Smith for advise on how to "discretely" approach Starr. Though it seems quite improbable that Starr (or at least Rosenzweig) didn't already know all about the developing situation at the time. Again, no vast right-wing conspiracy, just a small circle of friends. Smith and Porter were there at the beginning and the end. Porter was there almost every step in between. Except when guileless Paula decided she needed to clear her name, right, Neocon? But this is all "guilt by association", eh, Neocon? All innuendo, totally unlike saying Gore writes like the Unabomber.

Sorry for the impolite lapse here, but the whole thing smells a lot fishier than the very circumstantial obstruction case that's supposed to be an impeachable offense.



To: Neocon who wrote (32431)2/6/1999 7:51:00 PM
From: sea_biscuit  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 67261
 

The attitude was well summed- up by Bill Kristol, who said that we should mostly wait for him to fail on his own.

Well, they waited and waited and waited, until they could wait no longer! Then they did the best that they could -- and the current sexual circus is the product of their best efforts!

Besides, do you think that nuts like Limbaugh, Drudge et. al. can wait? What else do their lives consist of, other than Bill Clinton? In fact, were it not for Bill Clinton, they would have been working at real jobs and earning their living! They owe their very existence to Clinton.

Your continual gloating over the possible change of fortune between the two parties is the gloat of someone with a deep resentment towards those who have basically run the country for the last 18 years.

Oh, yeah? If I were to mention the quadrupling of the national debt in the 1980's, would you still say that it is the Republicans that have "basically run the country for the last 18 years"? Eh?



To: Neocon who wrote (32431)2/7/1999 3:43:00 AM
From: Daniel Schuh  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 67261
 
Offhand, Neocon, I'd say you're again exhibiting type 3 Clinton-hating, as defined by Weisberg:

The third and most potent kind of Clinton-hating is conservative, but is related to the liberal kind in its aversion to a Democrat who plays politics to win. Instead of being pleased that Clinton has enacted parts of their agenda, Republicans are furious at him for co-opting the best bits of it. With the end of their monopoly on such issues as crime, welfare and balancing the budget, Republicans are forced to contend with Democrats over issues where their positions are distinctly less popular: education, the environment, Social Security and social issues like abortion and homosexuality. Clinton's seizure of the center has driven the G.O.P. to the right, empowering the radicals who want either to legislate on the basis of a narrow moral code or drastically curtail the Federal Government's role, or both. To conservatives, Clinton didn't win the center legitimately. He stole it from them. nytimes.com

Or should Weisberg redefine his taxonomy in terms of "Clinton-despising"?