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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E who wrote (30552)	2/9/1999 8:39:00 PM
From: James R. Barrett	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Would you mind naming two or three innocent people who were executed in the past ten years and were later PROVEN innocent of the crime? Jim

To: E who wrote (30552)	2/9/1999 8:40:00 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 108807

>And yet you understand that those selected to die were born innocent children? were raised, for the most part, in brutality our dear, good, fortunate children could not conceive? and were selected, from among the thousands of "depraved savages" arrested for killing in our country each year, by a selection process that spares the vast majority of equally depraved savages, because... the unlucky ones are black, or have had the good sense to kill a black, they are male, they are uneducated, they are poor, they are mentally retarded, they are mentally ill, they killed in one state and not another ... that is to say, they were losers in the rigged lottery that determines who lives and dies in our country, and which you support so complacently. < Just out of curiosity- why is it better to warehouse killers in cages for the rest of their lives? I am not sure that is more "humane"- especially when one considers the state of our prisons. Money should certainly be spent on preventing children from turning into killers- but why waste money on people who are already killers? And since money is finite- it is imo a waste to spend it on people who have chosen to take the life of another. It doesn't matter why they murdered (setting aside self defense and accidents), it doesn't matter if they are retarded- who cares? The victim is just as dead as if the killer had been a mensa member. When our country was founded a killer had about 3-4 weeks (maybe) until hanging. Our founding fathers did not have a problem with this. I agree with Christine that more people should be executed, not less- due process is all that is required. Our constitution doesn't guarantee the innocent won't be executed- it merely states they won't be executed without due process.

To: E who wrote (30552)	2/9/1999 8:45:00 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

E, Many years ago I recall somebody asking my grandfather, a very conservative man, how he felt about the death penalty. He replied that it was unacceptable in any civilized society. Asked why, he replied "because sometimes they get the wrong guy". Which stopped the argument, as it always must. I have always thought that a condition for the imposition of the death penalty be that if the individual was later proven innocent, the judge and jury should be promptly executed. I suspect that such a requirement might significantly change the proceedings. Refusing to put anyone to death is simply recognition of our own fallibility. Who can argue with that? Steve

To: E who wrote (30552)	2/9/1999 8:47:00 PM
From: James R. Barrett	Respond to of 108807

Would you mind naming two or three people who were executed in the past ten years for a crime they committed when they were 16 years old or younger? If you can't think of any in the past ten years, try twenty. Jim

To: E who wrote (30552)	2/12/1999 10:40:00 PM
From: Grainne	Respond to of 108807

<I disagree with you, Christine. I believe that something about your support of this situation does 'damage' you, or reflects damage already done to you. I don't know if the damage is 'spiritual' or not, because I don't know what that word means. I know it's thrown around very casually among people who have repellent values. (You know, I what I think, really? That the word 'spiritual' doesn't mean a damn thing. I think that word is a decadent joke.)> Well, E, I see we are not in the same place on the death penalty issue. I would note that I clearly said I was not in favor of executing murderers under the current unfair system of justice. Perhaps you missed that. However, once the penalty is the same for everyone who kills, the death penalty would be fine with me. I also think the idea that rapists should be executed, because they kill a woman's or girl's spirit, which was advocated this year by a political candidate in California, is an interesting argument. However, I do not support it because I think it would lead to more rape victims being murdered. After all, the criminal at that point has nothing left to lose. I forget which side of the karma argument you are on, but actually I think it would be nice if murderers died in exactly the way they killed someone. I don't support that, either, though, because it would brutalize executioners. I do think that anyone who participates in a crime in which someone is murdered should be executed, as well. Sort of like "use a gun, go to prison" magnified. I think we should be totally up front about what the penalties are for serious crimes, so that it is all very fair. There was a huge outrage among the anti-death penalty crusaders when Mr. Siriphongs (I am not sure I spelled that correctly) was put to death last week in California. Many of them argued that he felt remorse, and had led a model life as a prisoner. So what? The victims are just as dead. Someone noted that he was a very good painter, in justification of commuting his sentence. But then a pro-death penalty spokesman observed that Hitler was a painter, also. I do find it offensive that you can decide that I am damaged by my position. Who are you to know that? I am absolutely nonviolent, not revengeful, and full of love. I just think that if someone has murdered, they have violated the most basic laws of being a human being, and no longer deserve my love or protection.