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To: marcos who wrote (7076)	2/12/1999 5:24:00 PM
From: Len	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 12810

Ah, I am reminded of the...what were they called?... perhaps griots? who were, in the tribes in Africa (specifically, as I recall, Gambia) the ones delegated to learn and remember, word for word, the entire tribal history of their respective tribes. This included every birth, death, movement, battle, etc, from their supposed beginnings, up to the present time. In addition, they could only relate the history by starting at the very beginning, and reciting verbatim all the way through, lest they were knocked off their rhythm, wherein they would have to begin again. Either that, or I am confusing memories of Kunta Kinte's relatives in an episode of "Roots." Either way, sounds good.<g> Len

To: marcos who wrote (7076)	2/12/1999 7:59:00 PM
From: X Y Zebra	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 12810

Don Marcos, the consistency of oral histories over time can be amazing. In certain instances I may agree with you. But it is a case by case consideration. My experience tells me that people (in general), tend to change things from the actual events... even if it was not their intention to do so. Reported historically events can be changed, as they say, history is written by the victor. The main point was made around the bible, how things were/could be changed. In addition, in my argument was in reference to the destruction that took place, (and still does), all under the premise that the biblical references are absolutes. ps - i really don't think she's pushing any religious stuff on you, go back and check it out In no way, did I understood Edwarda to be preaching me anything, I was simply making the point (as jb3 understood correctly), of the accuracy (or not) of a verbal story, and the effects that time (and humans) can have on the original version. To illustrate further....(and corresponding in kind to your story....) Remember these words? "The earth is our mother." and... "I have seen a thousand rotting buffaloes on the prairie, left by the white man who shot them from a passing train." Chief Seattle. Well apparently he never saw a buffalo... according to.... "Get serious. Chief Seattle never left Puget Sound, so he never saw a railroad, nor a buffalo - dead or alive." www-formal.stanford.edu I personally do not know the story, you be the judge, in the above web site they claim to have evidence that Chief Seattle did not do a lot of the things that are attributed to him. My point is that a lot of "Myths" become fact, and worse, they become dogma All I am really saying is that unless one has the hard facts in hand... and can prove them, it is impossible to make an absolute statement with 100% accuracy. No more, no less. From the same site above: ______________________ An opinion Large parts of the environmental movement are more concerned with feelings than with facts. The fake Chief Seattle speech appeals to them independently of whether he really said that. If he didn't say it, he ought to have said it - rotting buffaloes and all. In March 1996 I received email from Andre de Raaij in the Netherlands telling me that a Dutch translation of the fake speech by an organization called Aktie Strohalm (Action Straw) reached sales of 100,000 in December 1995. A yearbook containing an article exposing the fake sold 40 copies. Fakery about American Indians and other primitives evidently plays very well in the Netherlands and probably in other European countries. After all this stuff about what Chief Seattle said or ought to have said, here's a small fantasy about the Chief Seattle Theme Park. Does anyone want to turn this fantasy into a reality? ______________________ End of copy. Additional research on Chief Seattle: geocities.com Disclaimer: 1. I am not expressing an opinion on Chief Seattle. 2. I am not expressing an opinion on the enviromentalist movement. 3. I am not suggesting that the above is fact or not. 4. All I am saying is unless you have the facts in hand... it is best to say "I doubt it, or I do not know." 5. This is only my opinion. _____________ Si yo digo que la burra es azul... es porque tengo la brocha en la mano. <g>.

To: marcos who wrote (7076)	2/12/1999 9:12:00 PM
From: Dayuhan	Respond to of 12810

OT - no morons involved. I once spent some time in a community of Binukid, a minority tribe on the island of Mindanao. The old men there still chant the oral histories at festive occasions. I heard on once; it is a compelling experience. It went on for most of a night; I've no idea how many hours. Big fire, roast pig and roots, plenty to drink. Didn't hear him start, didn't even notice him; all of a sudden he's going on, and everybody's going quiet to listen. Pretty dizzy memory, though I still remember parts of the story very clearly. One memory that is not dizzy at all was when the narrative entered modern times, and I started recognizing events. The oddest part of it: the next day I tried to talk to the chanter and could not. Most Binukid speak Cebuano, as do I, but this old man showed no sign that he spoke a word. It was only then that I realized that he must have been singing in Binukid, of which I understood only a few words, certainly not enough to communicate what was communicated. Strange, but one thing I learned in the outer edges is that strange shit really does happen. Steve