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Strategies & Market Trends : Asia Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Liatris Spicata who wrote (8275)	3/12/1999 3:15:00 PM
From: Bosco	Respond to of 9980

Larry - regarding contemporary China, time scale varies. Since you and I have a few PM exchanges before, I got the impression that you are unaware of much of the dirty laundries prior to the communist ascendency. Now, in absolute term, and for periods like Cultural Revolution, yes, you are absolutely right about human suffering in China. In fact, I ve dear friends who have suffered along the way. Having said that, again, abysmal that it may be, there has been progress even in the non material realm. Am I and my tibetan friends happy? No, not at all, but it is only fair to call a spade a spade. You are absolutely correct in demanding the use of racism, or the accusation therein, be substantiated. However, so go your own comments - and that goes with everything each and everyone of us say short of prefixing it with the now common lingo "IMO." Like you, I do not like to use the race card. As early as 20 years ago, I ve argued against mindless EEO etc. Having said that, the uncovering of these spies on the eve of Chinese Premier's visit is indeed peculiar, don't you think? And certainly, accusing 'Larry T Sherwood' is not as convincing as 'Wen Ho Lee'. Why is it this guy gets the chair and the CEO of a big corporation simply label as a capitalist? Obviously, as I reiterate many times, I don't know enough to say this is so, but since you demand justification, I simply oblige <VBG>. Larry, I don't know what you are getting regarding DoD and the Clinton administration. As I ve repeated many times ago, if you don't allow people to make assumption, don't do it yourself. Dragging DoD and Clinton, unpopular [or not] they may be, doesn't change the fact that this guy got hang out to dry - and your reaction prove it! I knew very little about Hollywood, except that recent controversy about Elias someone. It is my impression that it was an intensely political backstabbing place, even if there was a few good personal things coming out of it, like how the then Nancy Davis met Ronald Reagan. AFAIK, there was too much illusion, too much deception - and very often too much pain - to get to the bottom of it, let alone making a moral head or tail about it. Finally, it is your right to hate the communists [without violating other people's rights, of course,] be it with probable cause or without reason. As I ve said, I ve good friends who have suffered as a consequence of its rule, but they certainly see both sides of the coin. Embarrassed to say, being an idealist fool that I was - that I share your utter distaste of any totalitarian regime - I ve come to appreciate my friends' ambivalence. best, Bosco

To: Liatris Spicata who wrote (8275)	3/12/1999 6:30:00 PM
From: Frodo Baxter	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 9980

>I'd be interested in knowing to what "progress" you refer. I gather respect for human rights is not an area in which they have "progressed". Not that the vast majority of "the rest of the world" cares a flip about that. The butchers of Tienamen- or their heirs- are still in power and China remains a police state. The barest glimmerings of an independent judiciary are evident. Civilized people would not enrich the tyrants in Beijing or aid in their oppression of those who disagree with said tyrants [Hint: that means not trading with the thugs]. >The "progess" in China in recent years has been material, not in terms of human rights. IMHO, that's fairly ignorant twaddle. The Chinese leaders today bear no resemblence to the "butchers of Tianemen." And vapid isolationalism would work as well in China as it has in Cuba. Finally, your contention that personal prosperity is unlinked to personal freedom is absurd and unsupported by history. Inasmuch as we desire China to be a free-market democracy, we should encourage their development into a bourgeois culture, as quickly as possible. As you know, I'm hardly a friend of the left. But simplistic name-calling is pointless. It's been said that while Russia has made more de jure reforms towards free-market democracy, China has made more de facto reforms. Look around, you'll see this is clearly true. Hell, the Chinese today are less red than the French. >McCarthy, for all his sins- and I suspect they were significant- fought a valiant fight against the most powerful enemy of the human spirit ever to infest the earth. Quite possibly neither his methods nor his motives were exemplary. But I wonder which side you were on during this century's titanic struggle between the forces of slavery and freedom. That's inane. McCarthy was anti-pinko, so that means he's a good guy? So was Hitler. McCarthy was no ally of freedom. He was an opportunistic bully who did far more damage to ideals of liberty than most of those he persecuted against. Friend, it's one's actions, not the political labels that others affix.