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To: Scumbria who wrote (77044)	3/22/1999 10:10:00 PM
From: Paul Engel	Respond to of 186894

SCUMbria - Re: " K6 has beenaround for a long time, and boots just fine. " Sure. Except in a Gateway system. Except when booting WIndows 95. That's some track record, eh? Paul

To: Scumbria who wrote (77044)	3/22/1999 10:12:00 PM
From: Gary Ng	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

Scumbria, Re: Obviously the problem is with the Gateway system, not the K6 I agreed to what Ten said. It is not the problem of K6 but Super Socket 7 which once lost Intel is bombarded with quite some small glitches(look at those problems on usenet). This will also be the problem facing by K7. The CPU may be fine but its environment like chip sets, motherboards etc. is suspicious. Not to forget that Socket 7 is a left over market which has the framework established by Intel whereas K7 is now all on its own. Gary

To: Scumbria who wrote (77044)	3/22/1999 10:13:00 PM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

Scumbria, Gateway doesn't need AMD. AMD needs Gateway. If they were smart at managing their quality systems, they would have ensured a major customer like Gateway was given the right support to meet boot up requirements on their computer. If AMD wants to maintain Tier 1 customers like Gateway, they better help Gateway figure out their boot up problems and fast. This should be a TOP priority for AMD. Blaming the customer is not the right answer. As I've said before, it sure looks like AMD doesn't have the talent to implement serious DFD. We've moved well passed the day's of throwing someone a chip and saying "go figure it out, it's your problem". Michael

To: Scumbria who wrote (77044)	3/22/1999 10:33:00 PM
From: Paul Engel	Respond to of 186894

scumbria - Re: "Obviously the problem is with the Gateway system " According to Gateway: zdnet.com "The anomaly was tracked to the PCI bus on the motherboard, which is manufactured by Microstar International. It wasn't seen in 100 percent of the machines, so some Gateway Select PCs using K6-2 have shipped. Ritter could not say how many." According to AMD: AMD-K6® Recommended Motherboards amd.com www1.amd.com (Select K6-2/400 and ATX MB) Microstar (MSI) MS-5169 Revision 2.1B & 4.0A are APPROVED motherboards for the K6-2 400 Mhz CPU !!! Well, now - just what kind of TESTING did AMD do on these Microstar Motherboards in order to help along their new favorite customer, Gateway ? Perhaps these will be relabeled K6-2 GateDelay PCs ! Paul

To: Scumbria who wrote (77044)	3/22/1999 10:46:00 PM
From: Paul Engel	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

scumbria - A tip from AMD to Ted Waite {==========================} amd.com "Tips on Making a Smart Motherboard Choice Choosing a Quality Motherboard The selection of a motherboard can have a dramatic effect on the overall reliability of our PC. The motherboard can be the difference between a stable, reliable machine and a frustrating experience." {=============================} Do you think Ted is a little frustrated by now? Paul

To: Scumbria who wrote (77044)	3/23/1999 12:02:00 AM
From: Diamond Jim	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

"Obviously the problem is with the Gateway system, not the K6." Yeah right, what does GTW use on Intel inside, a Dell system? You have to come up with a better excuse than that(at least on the Intel thread) jim

To: Scumbria who wrote (77044)	3/23/1999 1:52:00 AM
From: Paul Engel	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 186894

scum bria - You'll love this ! AMD seeks Mother Board Designers ! And it's from YOUR FAVORITE Trash Compactor, the YUK Register ! "One of our friends at AMDzone reports an interesting snippet. He said he was on the way home when he heard an AMD ad. The company is looking to recruit motherboard designers. " Enjoy ! AMD clearly new about the MOTHERBOARD problems at Gateway for quite a while now ! Paul {==============================} theregister.co.uk Posted 17/03/99 8:07am by Mike Magee AMD hires as it fires "One of our friends at AMDzone reports an interesting snippet. He said he was on the way home when he heard an AMD ad. The company is looking to recruit motherboard designers. " The 300 people out of the 13,800 personnel on its payroll which AMD said it would lay off are not connected with its chip business at all. However, with the sad demise of Apricot UK, there are a fair few motherboard designers looking for work. Apricot used to design wonderful motherboards that even managed to resist staffers from The Register sitting on them by accident. We will be meeting top AMD exec Dana Krelle at the Cebit show in Hannover tomorrow and will report this from the Messe. ®

To: Scumbria who wrote (77044)	3/23/1999 10:48:00 AM
From: Tony Viola	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 186894

Scumbria, >>>Obviously the problem is with the Gateway system, not the K6.<<< Man, you sure lit up the thread with this one. My 2¢: In I/O interfaces between components or systems from different vendors, sometimes one can be marginally in violation of a timing spec., say the CPU chip vendor in this case, but the other vendor, say the chipset vendor, has enough slop, or grace on their end that the minor violation is overlooked. Everything works. Along comes another chipset vendor which doesn't have the slop or grace, but is closer to the edge of the spec., but still within spec., and bingo, the marginally out of spec. CPU device causes a failure. Of course you know I'd turn this into an Intel advantage...so many more chipset, DRAM, etc. vendors build around Intel than around AMD, especially early on, that such problems will be found early and fixed in the Intel case. Further, the much more serious server vendors will be very wary of AMD because of their much lower level of experience (none) in participating in mission critical systems designs. Whether this Gateway thing is AMD's "fault" or not, it can only throw more FUD about AMD into the equation. Tony