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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (34428)	4/11/1999 8:14:00 PM
From: Chuzzlewit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I guess you forgot about the covenant with Abraham, huh. What about the covenant with Cain? Seems there were lots of covenants back then. And you still didn't explain all of the laws handed down by God reported in the Old Testament. Did God change his mind? Or did man change his mind about the nature of God? And if the Old Testament is a do-over, why do so many fundamentalists cling to Genesis as an accurate representation of the origins of the universe (despite being self-contradictory)? Sidney, the problem in a nutshell is this. You believe in your faith. Others believe in different faiths. The operative words are belief and faith. Not proof and fact. That's why there are Taoists and Moslems and Buddhists. That's why there are Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox. The clashes between those faiths is responsible for much of the world's misery. Sunnis vs. Shi'ites, Jews vs. Moslems, Moslems vs Russian Orthodox, etc, etc. Let me give you a recent example. There was a Roman Catholic missionary (a physician whose name escapes me right now but for some reason I want to say Dr. Tom Dewey) who reported to American about the bogus killing of Catholics in North Vietnam. He mobilized Cardinal Spellman and the two started doing their best to get increased US involvement in the then quiescent Viet Nam civil war. They literally described the border between North and South as "the gates of hell". These two were as responsible as any for the deaths of around a million people! And all in the name of religion. TTFN, CTC

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (34428)	4/11/1999 9:34:00 PM
From: nihil	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

What about that deal between Abraham and Jehovah? Or Noah and Jehovah? Or Isaac and Jehovah? Don't any of them count? Huh? You guys can even read.

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (34428)	4/12/1999 12:56:00 AM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Sidney, the model of three historical eras you outlined isn't supported by the Bible text, IMO, (ignoring for the moment history and science). You posted: The time from Adam to Moses is an age with no covenant between God and man. Certain "laws" governed at that time. Man had no access to God at all and had no way to address any grievance or expect any mercy. <i/> Doesn't the Bible mention Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Hagar, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and Melchizedek, among others, as having relationships and "access" to God during this period? And then: From Moses until Jesus Christ the Old Covenant was the law for mankind and the Israelites were the emissaries for God to the world. Mankind had a limited access to God through the Levitical priesthood and the sacrifices and the Temple. <i/> As I read it, the convenant initiated in Moses time dealt w/ the relationship between God and one specific people. The rest of humanity aren't depicted as entering into that covenant or as being involved in it at all. There are hints in at least one of the prophets that other peoples have or had relationships of their own with God though little is said about this. Sorry I can't remember the citation here - I seem to think its probably Isaiah. In addition, the book of Jonah seems designed to teach a lesson that other peoples can have a relationship with God, even the Assyrians, the enemies of the ancient Israelites. Well, anyway, I think you might want to give that model of the three historical eras a little more thought.