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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jbe who wrote (34461)	4/11/1999 10:45:00 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

A visionary is a lunatic whose ravings conform to our prejudice.

To: jbe who wrote (34461)	4/18/1999 10:34:00 AM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

<<Christine, I would go along with much of your assessment of Jesus, but --- "probably well experienced with hallucinogens"?? (Ho, ho...) I would also challenge the view of Jesus as being "on the edge of reality". I know that is a fairly widepread view. But I think we tend to forget that what is considered "normal" today may not have been considered "normal" at other times and places. To take only one example: if someone has "visions" and hears "voices" in America today, we tend to assume he or she is having schizophrenic delusions. At other times & places, the visionary was revered as a prophet. And at still others, it was normal for just about everyone to have visions (or to say they had them)>> When I read (what is purported to be) the Q document, Jesus' statements are all over the map, totally inconsistent and contradictory, and, to me, a little crazy sounding. I am not the first person to have sensed that he might have been depressed, and certainly there is an argument to be made that he was psychotic. His actions at the temple were certainly impulsive and self-destructive, and not well thought out. He obviously truly believed that God would rescue him, which seems to be delusional in the sense that he could not discern reality. The ancient world was rife with hallucinogens of all sorts. Marijuana was heavily used in the Middle East during this time period. Genesis says something about all the plants and seeds being for the use of man. Some people think it is plausible that Jesus, as a seeker, travelled to India to see what the Buddhists were about, and there were certainly hallucinogens there, as well. In fact, they have always been strongly associated with spirituality, opening the gateway to altered states of perception where people have revelations of a religious nature. Since no one can really even prove that Jesus existed, I think we are pretty much free to speculate about what he might have been about had he existed, and considering the time and place he is said to have inhabited, there is no reason he would not have taken drugs. Of course, I cannot prove that either, but everything about Jesus is only our speculative perceptions, anyway. You certainly cannot prove that he did not use hallucinogens, by the same token.