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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E who wrote (35106)	4/18/1999 12:08:00 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Sex with an obese woman is sex. Sex with a very skinny woman is sex. Sex with an old woman is sex. Sex with an obese man is sex. Sex with a very skinny man is sex. Sex with an old man is sex. Sex with any of the above that doesn't want it is rape. Sex between the most nubile woman and the most sexually attractive man in the world, if either doesn't want it, is rape. Sex with an unconscious person is rape. Two children can't have sex. Sex between a child and an adult is rape. Sex between two animals is sex. Sex between an animal and a human is rape. Sex between a corpse and a human is rape. Rape is non-consensual sex. Non-consensual sex is a crime. It is wrong. It can never be right.

To: E who wrote (35106)	4/18/1999 12:49:00 AM
From: jbe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

I am with you (and with the "rednecks") on the question of rape, E. But I would dispute the notion that rapists are necessarily twisted creatures who are angry, specifically, at women. Many rape men, for example, especially in prisons, where rape is a means of establishing, or confirming, the pecking order. And others humiliate other men by raping their women. To take the most obvious example: it used to be standard -- and accepted -- procedure for conquering armies to loot the towns they occupied, and to rape all the women. The soldiers were not necessarily "angry" at the women they raped (and then perhaps enslaved or killed). But they had been deprived of the "goodies" of life for some time, and now they were told they had the right -- "To the victor belong the spoils" -- to take those goodies without asking for permission. On top of that, by raping the women of the men they had conquered in battle, they were also showing their contempt for the men in yet one more way. ("Your women are now ours.") And despite the Geneva Conventions, rape has been practiced in many modern conflicts, especially in ethnic ones, again as a way of expressing contempt for the enemy as a whole. I doubt that the majority of the men who committed such acts in Bosnia, for example, had been violent rapists before the war. They probably looked, and acted, like "normal" law-abiding citizens. That is what is so spooky. In short, sex and violence often DO go together, and this should not come as a surprise to anyone. Joan

To: E who wrote (35106)	4/18/1999 2:06:00 AM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Contrary to what some people may believe about me, I really am not much into being politically correct, and actually find non PC comments refreshing. I think what concerned me about your writings about rape, however, was some implied (by me, probably) message that women play some role in their own rapes by being attractive, or seductively dressed. While it is definitely accurate that most women who are raped are in the age group where women are at the peak of their sexual attractiveness, certainly women into their nineties are raped as well, so I suspect rage and powerlessness as strong motivating factors. Rapes in prison, and by conquering armies, are of course more complex. I did find this little url interesting in the sense that it jogged my memory about what victims women have been historically, and still today in most of the world. When millions of women still have their sex organs sliced up and butchered in female genital mutilations, and brides are still being burned in places like India, certainly the issue of men needing to feel powerful and dominating over women seems crucial to understanding male behavior: pubweb.ucdavis.edu