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Pastimes : WHY?? Littleton Colorado -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: PatiBob who wrote (135)	4/22/1999 11:33:00 PM
From: Gordon A. Langston	Respond to of 368

A recent Littleton graduate of Columbine writes in Salon magazine. salon.com He seems to have had similar feelings to these killers, but as he states the difference is he and his friends never armed themselves to the teeth and pursued their "resentment and abhorrence" of the (I suppose you can call them) insiders" The "insider" "outsider" argument is weak. It takes effort and determination to be a wrestler, cheerleader, or even the oblivious nerd, You can't say the "outsiders" didn't work at achieving their status. Two movies address this in some ways, Lord of the Flies and If. We have been aware of the problem. It is not new. This society has chosen to ignore the issue. Tribes socialize, religions socialize, even the military socializes. Faceless suburban environments with corporate big box and absentee ownership form, as the author of the Salon article, J Stark says "centers that cannot hold" because "there is no center". They do not socialize. They alienate. They destroy. Not actively but passively it produces a steady flow of sociopaths. Gordon

To: PatiBob who wrote (135)	4/22/1999 11:35:00 PM
From: Bill on the Hill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 368

My son was on the wrong path 7 years ago. I had spent a large part of his childhood away from home. He did not have a father when he needed one. Lets just say I was preoccupied with my own ways. He was arrested one night for public vandalism. The wake up call that hit him, hit me. His mother and I were divorced then for 7 years of his 15 years. His mother and I lived within 2 miles of each other. We talked. Her and I decided that our selfishness was killing our kids and we were losing them. We made a decision to share a house. Not married, not together but share as friends would share. We decided to put aside our stupid arrogance and give instead of take. After all we were about to lose our most precious gifts we had ever received. Our children. Today my son is 21. He is in his third year of college. He is studying to be a wildlife biologist. His sister is a junior in high school. She is the head cheerleader, varsity choir, athletic trainer for 5 sports (lettered 9 times), a christian, carries a 3.95 gpa, state champion in 3 divisions of HOSA (Health Occupation Students of America) and has received full scholarship offers from 3 universities to date. My older son is 25. He took over management of my business this year so that I could pursue a different career and travel to India next year. I credit their achievements to God in my life. If you new me you would understand. Imagine someone that has attempted anything and done everything and you would begin to get a clear picture of me. I am not a model citizen and am not the worst either. The thing is I have children that are beautiful people, inside and out. I did not do this. I just got my ego out of the way. I feel in my heart that this problem is with our lack of a spiritual belief in our lives. I do not think it is about guns. I have 5 firearms in my home. They are under lock and key. I hunted for years. I was raised and taught by hunters. I have been a vegetarian now for 5 years. It was a spiritual choice. I still do not think it is about guns. It is about a lack of faith in a higher power than I Bill

To: PatiBob who wrote (135)	4/23/1999 12:41:00 AM
From: Jacques Chitte	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 368

I worry about this. Our neighborhood is not a very cohesive place. We live next door to a plot of land that was lying fallow under some high voltage lines. Last spring a growing gang of teenage boys began to hang out there, build a mud bike track and generally engage in loud and unpleasant behavior. The worst words a 100 decibels get tiring after a while. Picking rocks and bottles out of our driveway and back yard was not a lot of fun either. I tried to talk to then about being good neighbors. Biiiig mistake. The police were involved next. Bottom line was that the cops couldn't do much because the utility did not want to be in court dealing with trespass cases. The only thing that worked was to persuade the utility to put up chain link. Surprisingly and to our great relief - we got the fence. Months later we found out the the parents of the teenagers hated us and made us look like intolerant eccentrics to the town newspaper. What we did is remove a local spot where the kids could go and be out of the hair of all those overworked professionals. The needs of our household ... simply did not matter. I despair of pulling the neighborhood together when feuds erupt over such minutiae.

To: PatiBob who wrote (135)	4/23/1999 11:46:00 AM
From: MulhollandDrive	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 368

>>Lets face it, daycare is expensive and alot of parents opt to let their kids go home to an empty house. << PatiBob, May I respectfully suggest that if daycare is too expensive, then the lesser earning parent should dump the second car, wardrobe, insurance expense, commuting expense, taxes and STAY HOME! The point is that the child's well being is OBVIOUSLY secondary. I've read of many instances when factoring out the "cost" of the second income, the net gain was absolutely paltry. People are selling out their kids for a couple of grand a year. bp