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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (36136)	4/27/1999 9:43:00 AM
From: Dayuhan	Respond to of 108807

My parents brought me to England in my early teens. I loved the ruined castles, and loathed the cathedrals passionately. I remember Tintagel Head the best.

To: Ilaine who wrote (36136)	4/27/1999 10:28:00 AM
From: nihil	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Boys in England -- Pretty much depends on the boys. Most boys like to do things rather than look at things. Consider a survival camp or dude ranch while you two go to Europe. Explain to them that you want to see the great sights and that they would be terribly bored. Don't take them unless they insist on going. Look at some of the profusely illustrated books about England's treasures from the library. As a general rule don't miss the 3-star attractions. The Tower, Changing Guard at Buckingham Palace, Westminster Abbey (examine every tombstone), Wax Museum, Elgin Marbles (British Museum), St. Paul's, the War Museum at Old Bedlam. Take a side trip to Cambridge and just walk around and look at the buildings and try Evensong at King's College Chapel. Try to visit the Cavendish Laboratory -- they must have something of a display or museum. Edinburgh Festival. Edinburgh castle. Use the underground around London and trains elsewhere. Visit some of the great houses -- e.g. Blenheim Palace. These are things that some boys ought to enjoy. However, a little negative psychology will probably help. My little boy was outraged at our visiting museums and buildings around Europe. What he loved was Greece visiting ruins, castles, and forts and catching green lizards among the fallen blocks of marble. The Parthenon. The Acrocorinth. I would say Paris is a must and I would visit the Louvre, the Tomb of Napoleon, the Hotel Biron (close by), Notre Dame, the museum of Arts et Metiers. Have you taken them to Philadelphia? To the Air Force Museum at Dayton. To New York? To Quebec? Have they seen everything in Washington? What do they like best?

To: Ilaine who wrote (36136)	4/27/1999 11:55:00 AM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

I was taken to England when I was 11, so I know something about it <g>. We (my sister, 13, and I) were put in an English boarding school for a term, which was a very interesting and worthwhile experience, while my mother visited family and researched. Then my father came over and we toured for a month. What I loved most were castles, pagentry -- changing of the guard, the Black Watch performance at Edinboro, etc. -- and the great Welsh and Scottish scenery. I loved going into pubs for lunch and seeing all the local characters and their dogs in the pubs. I did NOT enjoy cathedrals much (though I did when I went back 6 years later) and at age 11 insisted on only ONE rose window per day. The gardens my mother loved to visit did Nothing for me. But a boat trip on a canal boat was glorious, and walking through the countryside was great -- there is so much happening in so little space, hedgerows, sheep, cattle, crops, trees, ponds, fields of bracken, etc all in a one-hour stroll. And there were wonderful festivals. Be ABSOLUTELY SURE to catch at least one Morris Dance Ale somewhere -- it is WONDERFUL stuff to watch (and, as I later found out, to do.)

To: Ilaine who wrote (36136)	4/27/1999 12:20:00 PM
From: Rambi	Respond to of 108807

THe boys have been to England three times--- but they were younger. Most recently (and closer to your ages) they have been to France and Germany/AUstria. They enjoyed in England: Madame Tussaud's and a Punch and Judy show, they thought the changing of the guard was boring (but they were very young), they loved Stonehenge, and cathedrals bored them. They loved riding the tube and the double decker buses, and talking to people, stopping at cheap pubs for pasties, or buying hot chestnuts at London Bridge. They could have cared less about hearing Evensong at Salisbury. The London Museum was amazing and afterwards we went for a real British tea at some hotel. As young as they were, they recall seeing Les Miserables vividly there. I think the more background they have, the more alive it becomes, but history is boring without drama and characters. St. Paul's was the place the BirdWoman in Mary Poppins sat and fed the pigeons. We drove down to Bavaria, and on the way I read aloud from a book about Mad Ludwig II so when we visited Neuschwanstein, it was very real for them. What can you say about Salzburg- my favorite place in the world? They have heard Mozart at home for years, and had watched Amadeus and Sound of Music so the churches and the old cemetery came alive. They loved the fortress with its torture chamber. IN Paris, we went twice to the Louvre. Staying power is not great for museums, and in retrospect, what has remained with them are the conversations with people in these countries, the food, the atmosphere, far more than the history. That's true for me too, though. I have no memory for history- but I can describe all sorts of minutiae about the people. THe Eiffel Tower was a dismal excursion. Too many tourists at most of these places. I loved Versailles; they got quickly tired of damask and art, but loved the stories about MArie Antoinette and all the Louis's. Let them plan the itinerary to some extent, if possible, and get them some good books beforehand. You have bright, fun boys and they will be the best company in the world if you don't force them into a preconceived idea of what MUST be seen and learned. But you probably know that.

To: Ilaine who wrote (36136)	4/27/1999 12:25:00 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Was driving today, listening to music, and thought of you for a couple of reasons. First because we've talked about driving music, and I had to laugh at myself, because I realized that since I started driving around in a jacked-up 4x4 pickup, my taste in road music seems to have veered of its own accord to a country flavor: Lynyrd Skynyrd, Allman Brothers, Creedence, JJ Cale, all that pickup truck kind of music. Never thought about it, but can't deny it, just seems to fit. Material there for an interesting study, if anyone cared. The second reason spun off a Skynyrd song called Saturday Night Special, which struck me in the light of our conversation about the deterrent effect of people carrying guns. The song, as good ol' boy country rock as they get, done by fellows who did their time in prison, offers quite a modestly eloquent response to the notion that more people carrying guns will result in less crime. From memory, something like this: Big Jim been drinkin' whisky And playin' poker on a losin' night An pretty soon Big Jim starts thinkin' Somebody been cheatin' him right So Big Jim commenced to fight him I wouldn't tell you no lie Big Jim done pulled his pistol Shot his friend right between the eyes Happens every day, in traffic, in bars, in domestic scenes. People lose their tempers, get pissed off. Unarmed, they scream at each other, maybe hit each other. Armed, they blow each other away. I like guns, and own them. My problem with the gun lobby is the assumption that the choice is between total freedom and total restriction. There has got to be a way to let people capable of controlling themselves carry arms, and restrict those who are not. Not a perfect way, obviously, but I can't believe that letting any clown who feels better with a metal dick shoved in his belt walk down the street with one is going to improve matters much. I really suspect that universal armament would bring more crime, not less. Less premeditated crime: certainly criminals capable of engaging in sober evaluation of risk vs. gain will be deterred. But how many really do? How may temper-induced gunfights will we get? Looking for an intelligent middle ground here. A story to end with: some years back local papers reported that a jail warden, who habitually carried a .45 cocked and locked in the front of his pants, shoved his gun into its spot a little too hard. It went off, and his phallic symbol left his phallic substance in shreds. Only lucky that the idiot did it to himself, not someone else. I've tried on occasion to imagine just how dumb he must have felt.

To: Ilaine who wrote (36136)	4/27/1999 8:01:00 PM
From: nuke44	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Stonehenge of course, even though it is no longer as accessible as it once was, due to fences that have been put up to keep tourists at bay. London is a walking tourist's delight, if your health doesn't restrict you from doing that. I lived in England for four years and married a London girl. During the approximately two years we were dating and engaged, I traveled to London at every possible opportunity. If she was working, I would spend the day walking London. Within walking distance you could visit (walking east) St. James Park, Hyde Park, Buckingham Palace, Trafalgar Square (head south), Westminster Abbey, the Houses of Parliament, Big Ben, (then head back east along the Thames), Tower Bridge, and a must for all kids of any age, The Tower of London. Also in London, are numerous museums that most kids would enjoy like the British Museum of Science, and the Imperial War Museum south of the Thames down at Elephant and Castle. Also, if you will be travelling throughout England, there are historical sites, too numerous to mention. One of my favorites is Warwick Castle, along the Thames west of London, near Stratford on Avon. If you go between the middle of June and the first of August, you can catch a production of "A Midsummer Night's Dream" on the grounds on the castle. If you don't tell your boys that it is educational, I'd guarantee that they'd enjoy it. If this was last year, I could offer the services of my twelve year old son, who lived in England since he was three, but has lived here in the U.S. since last fall. He's still busy catching up on all the things to do here in the U.S..