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To: Neocon who wrote (46737)	5/7/1999 10:31:00 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 67261

The adjusted odds ratio for suicide risk against having a gun in the home is 4.8. This means that suicides occur almost 5 times more frequently in homes with guns than those without. New England Journal of Medicine Of course, the cite by Sir John said "adolescents", so I have not yet untangled it all, but 75 and 4.8 are a lot different....

To: Neocon who wrote (46737)	5/7/1999 10:33:00 PM
From: cody andre	Respond to of 67261

That should reduce car insurance rates.

To: Neocon who wrote (46737)	5/7/1999 11:28:00 PM
From: Daniel Schuh	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 67261

I didn't say that, con-man.

To: Neocon who wrote (46737)	5/7/1999 11:36:00 PM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 67261

Sir John, you are right, you were merely pasting. Sorry about that....

To: Neocon who wrote (46737)	5/8/1999 12:10:00 AM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 67261

JLA was quite right to point out that the assertion is that suicidal adolescents are 75 times more likely to commit suicide if firearms are in the home. I cannot find the study on the web that may back that up, but it is meaningless, since it probably relates to the greater efficiency of firearms in completion rates. It may be that if males were to be denied guns, they would all hang themselves, the second most popular way to go, and also highly effective. Suicidal people tend to try to commit suicide!

To: Neocon who wrote (46737)	5/8/1999 12:16:00 AM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 67261

I have also not gotten found a sufficiently comprehensive statistical breakdown to figure out why those particular years were used, and if the pattern holds for a longer period. However, again, most people who attempt to take their own life do so by other means, the problem is that guns are more efficient. And there is also the problem of untangling causality: since gun ownership is probably more prevalent among those heavily involved in the drug trade, crime generally, and violent and abusive behavior, and those are all more important risk factors than guns, there may be a merely dependent correlation...