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Pastimes : Kosovo -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Yaacov who wrote (7518)	5/9/1999 3:30:00 AM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 17770

Yaacov, free speech is not subversive. It's one of the principles America was founded on. Just because someone disagrees with the government and doesn't believe in a war, does not mean that they hate America. As a matter of fact, it could be argued, quite persuasively, that the reason many of us are here stating our objections to this war is because we deeply love America. I believe it would be a HUGE mistake to send in America's ground forces, and get a bunch of young people killed over the pathetic lands of Yugoslovia. What are we fighting for? For peace? Do you really believe we can achieve peace in the region without enforcing a continuous military presence? Or maybe we are fighting for a lessoning of the killing? I ask myself, is that really worth my sons life? The answer is an unequevicable no. Well, if I'm not willing to sacrifice my childs life, then why should I be willing to sacrifice another American parents kids life? Seeing our bombs and planes being used to obliterate busses, convoy's, hospitals and foreign embassies should give anyone pause for genuine shame. It's not enough to see a problem area of the world and act. You must examine the consequences of your actions. And what the cause and effect possibilities your actions will entail? At first we were led to believe this would be a very short bombing campaign. Well, here we are, bombs away still! What has it accomplished? Have we saved any lives? Have we made life better for the people of Kosovo? Of course not, we simply gave Molovic an excuse to cleanse the area of his political enemies. And gave the Serbs an excuse to rally around him. Can anyone supporting this war see how the people of Kosovo have benefited from this bombing campaign?? I sure can't and I sincerely believe you would be hard pressed to find a million Kosovar's that do. This effort was lost before it began. Waging a war and believing someone is going to leave their homeland from an air campaign alone was idiotic. If the NATO countries didn't have the stomach to send in ground troops then all Milosovic had to do was hunker down and wait. As he has done, and will undoubtedly continue to do. Yaacov, I have a lot of respect for your knowledge of Europe, but on this issue I believe you have missed the long term consequences of our actions. The Communists in Russia will be strengthened by this war, India and Pakistan have been given their excuse to continue building nuclear weapons, and China now has a focus point to enrage it's citizenry and built it's military. NATO was never meant to be a police like military force. It was supposed to be used for defensive purposes only. The world will be a more not less peaceful place because of this war. The day we all start believing that political dialogue and discussion on a board like SI is subversive, is the day we are all doomed to be controlled by Marxist dictators. You may vehemently disagree with the discussions on this board. But the fact that we are free to have them, is healthy indeed. Michael

To: Yaacov who wrote (7518)	5/9/1999 12:20:00 PM
From: Andy Thomas	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 17770

>>Where were these bleeding hearts when Serbian artillery was making daily blood bath in Sarajevo?<< Wondering why the UN had enacted gun control on the Muslims in the area previous to that. >>Where were they when Russians were commiting mass murder in Grozney, I was appalled at what the Russians did in Grozny. Are you now comparing the freedom fighters in Grozny to the KLA? >>or when in 1991 Russian bombed city of Baku in Azergaijan and killed over 20000 inocent civilians, Russians and Azeri's alike. ...didn't know about that one. As far as I'm concerned, China is probably a cesspool. I still think it was a terrible mistake to bomb their embassy. From your postings here, it looks like you really have an axe to grind against the serbs. Maybe if the UN hadn't originally gone in and created "safe zones;" if they'd instead armed the Bosnians, none of this would have ever happened. As an aside, one thing I've gained in "meeting you:" I now know that a Jew can be as bigoted as anyone else. Tell me something, mr. chip-on-your-shoulder. Are the Jews at all responsible themselves for what happened to them under Hitler? I'm getting tired of this "pity poor me the victim Jew" line when people of your persuasion control much of the media, are the highest-paid lawyers and doctors, etc. You know, I believe in Yahweh (even if I don't know the super-secret spelling and pronunciation.) In large part, I don't think he's pleased with "His People" one bit. You went from "thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, property, etc.," to "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need," and you wonder why people don't like you. I guess creating heaven on earth is more difficult than you would have liked to have believed. Maybe if Jews would go back to practicing the 10 commandments en masse, instead of toadying up to the apparatus of they state, as so many of you seem so wont to do (and amazingly with often disastrous effect I might add); maybe then "the goy" wouldn't be so suspicious of you. You said you didn't need me, but the Israelis certainly seem to-- each Israeli is subsidized by America to the tune over over $5000 a year. I guess it's kind of ironic that your people are dependent upon the goy for their survival. Actually, it's just laziness on Israel's part... they could be self-funding if they would get private Jewish money. I guess it's more expedient to make the American goy pay for it. Like I said, it's a long way from the 10th commandment to the communist manifesto. What happened to your people along the way? FWIW Andy

To: Yaacov who wrote (7518)	5/9/1999 2:15:00 PM
From: James R. Barrett	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17770

Yaacov, when are you going to get it through your head that NATO has already LOST the war? The Serbs control Kosovo. NATO doesn't dare to take one step inside Kosovo. NATO thought they could win with bombs alone. They failed miserably as predicted by the intelligent people on this thread. NATO could have won and still could win if they had the balls, but they don't. The biggest worry that NATO troops have at this time in Albania is trying to find someone to do their laundry.

To: Yaacov who wrote (7518)	5/9/1999 9:24:00 PM
From: Douglas V. Fant	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17770

Yaacov, Absolutely agreed-While I disagree with the approach taken by NATO and am not a fan of President Clinton, I am staunchly pro-NATO. It would take two sheets of paper to list all of the evil things that the PRC is up to, whether in the Sudan, Pakistan, Tibet, the US, or elsewhere. And Russia fortunately a flaccid old monster-at least right now. The Serbs are no "nice guys" - former members of the anti-Fascist alliance-yes- but they seem to have forgotten their lessons learned in WWII. NATO stands between us and the banality of oppressor regimes....