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Politics : Libertarian Discussion Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Mama Bear who wrote (2713)	5/10/1999 2:05:00 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 13056

Barb, I will look for a source, and post my findings.... Of course, you could save us the trouble, since you claim to know so much more about it than I, providing a source for your counter assertion. But never mind...

To: Mama Bear who wrote (2713)	5/10/1999 2:56:00 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 13056

In so short a time I have not been able perfectly to do your bidding, but I will show you what I have thus far.... How Many People Are Alcoholics? Approximately 5% of the adult population is alcoholic and probably another 5% is drinking at levels that may lead to more serious problems. This estimate of 5% can be supported by a number of indicators. The number of alcoholics can be estimated using formulas based on liver cirrhosis mortality or per capita consumption data. While no one has carefully examined the underlying methodology of these formulas for a number of years, we still use these methods. However they fail to indicate other high risk drinking behaviours that may not be alcoholic but are no less problematic (ie. "binge drinking"). Using liver cirrhosis deaths, 3% of the adult population is estimated to be alcoholic. Using per capita alcohol consumption data, the Ontario population can be categorized in the following manner: No risk - abstainers 18.2% Low risk - 1-14 drinks/week 62.2% Moderate risk - 15-35 drinks/week 13.6% High risk - 35+ drinks/week 6.0% A third method uses survey methodology. The 1994 Ontario adult (18+) survey conducted by the Addiction Research Foundation (Adlaf et al., 1994) included specific questions to determine alcohol dependence. Based on those questions, 5.3% of adults met the alcohol dependence criteria. arf.org Is heroin addictive? Yes. The onset of addiction is rapid and severe no matter which method is used to consume heroin. Even "recreational users" who limit their use to weekends are not immune from the threat of addiction. Heroin addicts will "crave" more of the drug and experience withdrawal symptoms if they do not get their regular "fix" or dose. Heroin abusers may lose interest in daily activities and report loss of energy and boredom. They may have a hard time limiting their use, may build a tolerance to the drug requiring larger amounts of the drug to get the same effect, and may develop problems with their jobs and personal relationships. Like other drug addictions, heroin can become the most important aspect of their lives. Heroin addicts often have habits that cost $100-$200 a day, which can cause addicts to quickly turn to lives of shoplifting, burglary, theft, drug dealing, and prostitution to support their habits. tcada.state.tx.us Does using opiates cause dependence or addiction? Yes. Dependence is likely, especially if a person uses a lot of the drug or even uses it occasionally over a long period of time. When a person becomes dependent, finding and using the drug often becomes the main focus in life. As more and more of the drug is used over time, larger amounts are needed to get the same effects. This is called tolerance. well.com

To: Mama Bear who wrote (2713)	5/10/1999 2:59:00 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 13056

Barb, I also thought that you might find this interesting: Holland's Half-Baked Drug Experiment Pubdate: May/June 1999 Source: Foreign Affairs Copyright: 1999 Council on Foreign Relations, Inc. Volume: 78 No. 3 Mail: Foreign Affairs, 58 East 68th Street, New York, NY 10021 Website:http://www.foreignaffairs.org/ Author: Larry Collins "Look at the Dutch example!" That phrase has become a kind of mantra, chanted whenever the advocates of liberalizing drug laws in Europe or the United States gather. The Dutch, liberalization proponents argue, got it right by legalizing the public sale, under certain restraints, of cannabis products in their now-famous coffee shops and by adopting a much more lenient policy toward all forms of drug use and abuse based on a philosophy of "harm reduction." But did they? It has been almost a quarter-century since the Dutch Parliament set Holland's drug policy on a course of its own, one markedly different from that of the rest of Europe. Surely 23 years is enough time to examine the consequences of that policy. How has it affected drug use and addiction in the Netherlands? What impact has it had on Holland's next-door neighbors, France, Belgium, Germany, and the United Kingdom? Do the results really justify holding the Dutch drug policy up as a model for other nations to follow? Or are they a warning about the risks of following the Dutch example? The revised Dutch drug policy was based on Parliament's 1976 acceptance of the recommendation of a commission headed by Pieter A. H. Baan, a psychiatrist and expert in rehabilitating drug addicts who was serving at the time in the Dutch Office of Mental Health. The Baan Commission's report proposed distinguishing between so-called List One drugs-those that present "an unacceptable risk (heroin, cocaine and LSD)"--and List Two drugs--cannabis products, such as hashish and marijuana--seen as less dangerous and "softer." Essentially, Parliament depenalized the possession of 30 grams of marijuana or hashish--enough, the legislators calculated, to meet an average smoker's needs for three months. At the same time, the parliamentarians vowed to continue the fight against both domestic and international trafficking in the more dangerous List One drugs. Shortly after accepting the commissions primary recommendation, Parliament went a step further by authorizing the commercialization of cannabis products through their open sale in a network of licensed coffee shops. Those shops were subject to a number of legal constraints: they were not allowed to sell more than 30 grams to a customer; no hard drugs were to be sold on their premises; and they were neither to advertise, sell to minors, nor operate within 500 meters of a school. Out of respect for Holland's international treaty obligations, the import, export, production, or sale of cannabis products outside the coffee shops remained illegal. At the time the Baan Commission report was adopted, Holland had what was considered a serious heroin addiction problem, albeit one roughly comparable to that of its European neighbors. The nation was relatively untroubled by major international drug traffickers, with the exception of a number of Chinese "triads#6663

To: Mama Bear who wrote (2713)	5/11/1999 1:20:00 AM
From: Richard Babusek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 13056

Mamma Bear, Even though I'm on your side of the argument, I must take issue with one of your inferences, perhaps I misunderstood. Heroin can not be used casually without fear of addiction. Of all the people I've met, on either side of the treatment isle, I've never heard of anyone who attempted to use heroin in the same way as gin or marijuana, without catastrophic results. My opinions also come from experience and observation, while working with troubled youngsters in a rehab hospital. These are anecdotal to be sure. So while some think they are giving up too much to the do-gooders, to admit some of this stuff has that much power over our self control, I decline. Another point on this subject; Addicts recruit new addicts as a direct result of the illegality of the substance. Of the hundreds I've met, they all admitted to using any means necessary to get others hooked, because they could score some freebies thereby, or because they were dealing. The only exception to this was those who were not involved long enough to develop that attitude, such as the boy who had a violent physical reaction the first and last time he experiminted with something or other, and nearly died. I do not believe we need to concede that more addicts are inevitable if drugs are decriminalized. I think the evidence is the opposite. This is a narrow point, but a powerful one for the opposition argument, one I feel I must debunk. Ricardo